Altimeter-Barometer-Compass Watches - Anyone Have Experience?

Dan Gregory

Artemisia wrote:

> So I'm looking into the Garmins. I don't like the short-lived non-
> removable li-ion battery on the Edge 705. Plus since IGN has the
> monopoly on detailed land maps in France, I'm not sure that the Edge
> could have compatible ones.

Memorymap do IGN now
http://www.memory-map.co.uk/maps_fr...nland_top25.htm

Rob Morley

On Thu, 15 May 2008 07:17:43 -0700 (PDT)
Artemisia <e.roselli@free.fr> wrote:

> On 15 mai, 15:29, Duncan Smith <DSmith1...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Helmet mounted?
>
> I may be constrained to that. But one of the supreme pleasures of the
> trike so far has been leaving the *%¤*ing headgear at home for once
> and feeling the wind in my hair. Plus I really wanted two headlights,
> one on each side, to demarcate the width of the trike. They need to go
> on the crossbar but it's just too thick to accept any mount.
>
Are the mudguard brackets not strong enough to support lamps? If not
I'd have thought it would be pretty simple to have someone make up some
heavy duty replacements.

Peter Clinch

Artemisia wrote:
> I need to get back to the UK to try some BG Comps in a larger size.

Don't particularly limit things to BG: the ones you did try alomst
crippled you and didn't get on with the sole unit, not really much of a
recommendation for another pair, is it?

Try on /everything/ you can to make sure you get the best fit. All
manufacturers use different lasts so their shoes are all different
shapes from one another. People all have slightly different shaped
feet. The only way to really tell if a shoe is well shaped to your
particular foot is trying them on.

I have trouble believing you have to come to the UK in order to find a
decent selection of cycling shoes.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

POHB

On 15 May, 14:46, Artemisia <e.rose...@free.fr> wrote:
> So I'm looking into the Garmins. I don't like the short-lived non-
> removable li-ion battery on the Edge 705. Plus since IGN has the
> monopoly on detailed land maps in France,

IGN may have the commercial market sown up, but OpenStreetMap has and
will blow that wide open. See Paris for example.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=4...=12&layers=B0FT

You can quite easily take the OSM data and turn it into a map that
will upload to a Garmin - for free rather than the huge sums that
Garmin charges. OK so the coverage is patchy depending on whether
there are active OSM map-makers in your area, but it is getting better
all the time and you can always fix it yourself.

Artemisia

Rob Morley wrote:

> Are the mudguard brackets not strong enough to support lamps? If not
> I'd have thought it would be pretty simple to have someone make up some
> heavy duty replacements.

In the manual it explicitly says not to put anything on the mudguards or
their brackets. I contravened this by putting the computer on the
bracket, but it's a lot lighter than a lamp would be.

EFR
Ile de France

Artemisia

PoB wrote:

> Have you tried Minoura Space grips - the loopy bit that goes round the bars
> can expand quite dramatically - before I trimmed it, mine could go round the
> boom on my SMGT
I've seen it but I don't think it would work. I'd need two, which means
a lot of extra weight, plus they take up too much space and interfere
with the movement of the trike.

EFR
Ile de France

Alan Braggins

In article <692v5hF2vhmahU1@mid.individual.net>, Peter Clinch wrote:
>Artemisia wrote:
>> So I'm looking into the Garmins. I don't like the short-lived non-
>> removable li-ion battery on the Edge 705. Plus since IGN has the
>> monopoly on detailed land maps in France, I'm not sure that the Edge
>> could have compatible ones.
>
>I would guess you have no need of detailed land maps to navigate the
>road network, just road maps.

But having topographic maps on a GPS can be very nice, even if you
don't _need_ them: http://www.memory-map.co.uk/maps_france.htm

That does limit the choice of devices to PocketPC/smartphone types
though, I think. (You could still use Memory Map to load routes etc. onto
other GPS units.)

Whether there's a French equivalent of http://www.satmap.com/ I have no idea.


> Go to a GPS dealer and see what they have
>I think would work best: it's difficult to judge exactly what someone
>else will have a use for given the potential options.

Seconded.


>> Perhaps its best to separate cycling from other functions.
>I don't think I've ever seen a GPS which claims to be cycling specific.

The Garmin Edge series, but only because they combine the GPS with a
cycling computer. I can't think of anything about GPS functionality that
would be cycling specific. Ability to recharge from a dynamo, perhaps....


>> Plus cadence, a feature which I would love to have, probably
>> cannot be configured on this architecture.
>
>All you need to judge cadence is a watch with a display in seconds.

But the Edge 305 and 705 do have cadence sensors, or at least the option
for them.

Artemisia

Peter Clinch wrote:

> I have trouble believing you have to come to the UK in order to find a
> decent selection of cycling shoes.


The offer here is really very oriented towards road and men. In all the
shops I've traipsed through on my various searches for bikes, I've only
ever seen small selections of road shoes for men, except at the Mondial
des 2 Roues where they had some mtb footwear on display but not for
sale. The shop through whom I bought Widders did have those Shimano
sandals, but they were furiously expensive. Also they had a strong
uptilt on the toe - I can never wear shoes that have this. Plus they are
seriously hideous imho.

I would need to take a day to hoof all the bike shops in Paris to find
products to even try on. By the time they get there, the price is double
what you'd find on the Internet or by mail order, so the idea would be
to find a model that is comfortable and then order it via Web.

For this very reason I take several trips per year to the UK, to do my
shopping. I find it is a much larger market with far more variety on offer.

As for the BGs, I adore their gloves, and I've also used and liked their
insole when cycling with ordinary shoes. So while not limiting myself to
them at all, I'd like to try a size up from the shoes that hurt (which I
ordered by mail from Edinburgh, precisely because I had never seen
anything like that locally). I normally take a 39 but perhaps in cycling
shoes I should aim for a 40.

I'll be in Dublin in mid June. I wonder what the bike shops are like there?

Ta
EFR
Ile de France

Artemisia

Peter Clinch wrote:

> Why not just tape or glue a small 1 LED flasher to each mudguard? That
> will do the "I am here" job much more easily and cheaply, and since
> they'll be on top of the wheels probably more effectively.

That would do for "I am here", but not really for "Where am I going?".
Stretches of the road are very dark as well as horribly pitted. The
offroad section would need floodlights to be navigable. Plus I really
don't enjoy riding at night. Part of the use and beauty of cycling for
me is to get some sunlight and vitamin D in the system and counteract
the old SAD's.

April is a tricky period because we get rapidly lengthening days, and
just when you think you're making headway the hour changes and you get
whacked back to where you were in February. The issue is dawn rather
than dusk. I have to get up early enough to avoid traffic but not so
early as to ride in the dark. Plus every minute of sleep counts.

Anyway, I think I've given up on the ABC watch. Saves a packet. Thanks all,

EFR
Ile de France

Kristian M Zoerhoff

On 2008-05-15, Artemisia <e.roselli@free.fr> wrote:
> On 15 mai, 15:29, Duncan Smith <DSmith1...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Helmet mounted?
>
> I may be constrained to that. But one of the supreme pleasures of the
> trike so far has been leaving the *%¤*ing headgear at home for once
> and feeling the wind in my hair. Plus I really wanted two headlights,
> one on each side, to demarcate the width of the trike. They need to go
> on the crossbar but it's just too thick to accept any mount.

It's probably pricier than you want, but have you looked at Busch &
Müller's Ixon IQ Speed battery-powered light? I just got one recently,
and it uses a flexible heavy-duty rubber strap and clamp to lock onto
the handlebars -- it looks plenty big to fit Widder's crossbar. Plus,
it has the optics of an automotive low beam, so it's well-behaved on
the roads. You can probaby get by with just one, but if you insist,
two lights can run off the same battery (there's a slave cable in the
battery pack's puch for the second light). The pack itself just velcroes
on to whereever is convenient via a nice long elasticized strap, so that
shouldn't be a problem, either. And if you are forced to go with headgear,
you can get a helmet mount.

And yes, it's bright. Very bright. I actually use it as a daytime running
light as well (no trust of drivers here), and it works quite well at
getting me noticed.

--

Kristian Zoerhoff
kristian.zoerhoff@gmail.com

Peter Clinch

Artemisia wrote:

> That would do for "I am here", but not really for "Where am I going?".

Indeed, but you don't need dual lamps for that, just one decent one
which you can mount at the front using the braze-ons provided by HP Vel.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Artemisia

On 16 mai, 00:31, Kristian M Zoerhoff <kristian.zoerh...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> It's probably pricier than you want, but have you looked at Busch &
> Müller's Ixon IQ Speed battery-powered light? I

From the picture it doesn't look like it would go round at all. The
diameter of the cross-beam is a good 3 inches!

Thanks anyway.

EFR
Ile de France

Nigel Cliffe

Artemisia wrote:
> On 15 mai, 11:43, Peter Clinch <p.j.cli...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> To be quite frank I'd say don't bother. If you want navigation to be
>> easier get a GPS.
>
> I'm coming to the same conclusion. Now to find the right GPS. My
> TomTom is worse than useless. ......

> There's a company in France called IGN which produces all of the
> trekkers' and cyclists' land maps, with the kind of detailed trail
> information one needs when one is deliberately trying to _avoid_
> autoroutes. ...........

> So I'm looking into the Garmins. I don't like the short-lived non-
> removable li-ion battery on the Edge 705.


I have a Garmin hand-held (Vista CX). It can take map data in Garmin
format. Its been reliable on the handlebar bag of my bikes for some time.
The mount is starting the wear and become a bit rattly, but I don't suffer
from the battery disconnect others report (I think that was a problem with
earlier B&W Garmin models).



There is public domain (free) data for every commune centre in France,
arranged heirarchically, available in Garmin format. I have that data
loaded on my Garmin; it gives me a spot on the screen for every commune
(down to the little tiny tiny villages). I find that is sufficient to
navigate on a bicycle, when combined with a paper map.

The GPS says "I am here" and "around here are the following named communes".
I can then relate that easily to the paper map.


If I want to pre-plan a route, I just link legs between key communes; they
appear as straight lines on the GPS. I expect to wander around roughly
following the line, but its accurate enough.


What it doesn't do so well is urban navigation; I would need a different
solution for "turn left at second road after underpass".




I agree with the comments about barometer/compass watches; mostly just a
gadget in search of a solution. A handheld compass is simpler, cheaper and
far more accurate. A barometer has its uses when navigating, but only
really in mountain areas where one would be questioning the sanity of the
VVT riders !



- Nigel





--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

Mike Jacoubowsky

| For sunrise/sunset you'll have vastly more accurate information from a
| GPS unit, because it knows where it is. A watch will only manage the
| nearest time zone, which could be almost an hour out while a GPS will
| give it to you to the minute.

In France in particular, the sunrise/sunset time on a non-GPS watch is
likely to be *way* off due to the bizarre little jumps the timezones make in
that part of Europe. France is, if I recall correctly, offset by a full hour
from where it "should" be. The result is that it stays light far later (at
least in the summer, which I can verify by personal observation) than it
should.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Peter Clinch" <p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:692etmF2uhadsU1@mid.individual.net...
| Artemisia wrote:
|
| > I'm considering buying one of those ABC watches
|
| I have one (a Stormlite, an own-brand of one of the UK's major outdoor
| retailers) which I use for mountaineering, where it can be quite handy
| as a navigation tool. I never wear it apart from that as it's bulky and
| clumsy compared to a "normal" watch, and that is true of every one of
| these things I've ever seen: I think the sensor hardware sets bulk
| restrictions they have yet to find a way around.
|
| > The Suunto does not have a solar battery or the radio-controlled time,
| > but on the other hand has two features which I consider key: a storm
| > alarm and sunrise-sunset times. This is vital information for my cycling
| > days and I am constantly checking it on the internet.
|
| The storm alarm will be a joke, because we're not actually that good at
| weather forecasting. You'll get much better weather information from a
| local forecast. I imagine all it does is peep when the pressure drops
| like a stone, but you'll actually have a pretty good idea about it at
| least as fast by seeing that the sky's the colour of lead and there are
| big booming sounds getting louder...
|
| For sunrise/sunset you'll have vastly more accurate information from a
| GPS unit, because it knows where it is. A watch will only manage the
| nearest time zone, which could be almost an hour out while a GPS will
| give it to you to the minute.
|
| > It would be useful
| > to have it handy for when I don't have internet. Indeed, I don't really
| > understand the utility of all this alti-baro stuff otherwise - all I
| > need to know is if it's going to rain or go dark in the next hour.
|
| It can easily rain without much significant happening to the pressure.
| Significant things can happen to the pressure without it raining. A
| watch is not going to reliably tell you it's going to rain.
|
| As to will it get dark, well, at this time of year in this part of the
| world, today the sun will go down a wee bit later than it did yesterday.
| Once we're past September 23 it will be going down a little earlier
| every night. Sunrise works similarly. So as long as you've noticed
| you've your cycling day is over by X:00 hours it isn't rerally going to
| change much the next day. Furthermore, the degree of effective
| darklness will vary a lot with cloud cover, especially in winter, with
| clear skies giving far more effective daylight at the end of the day, so
| again your Magic Watch doesn't actually tell you much more than a normal
| watch plus a vague awareness of what time it's been getting dark this
| last week.
|
| > Another useful feature about the Suunto is that you can set a bearing
| > with the compass which will then tell you when you are going towards
| > where you want to go and when you are veering off-course: useful for
| > someone like me who is deficient in orientation skills. OTOH the
| > rotating bevel on the compass has been described as very hard to turn,
| > whereas the equivalent on the Casio turns correctly.
|
| If you want to navigate, especially on road systems where often you
| don't proceed in straight lines to a destination, a GPS will be
| infinitely more use to you than a compass. In order to set a compass
| bearing to a destination you need to know where you are, and where your
| destination is, and do some calculation based on the map. Taking a
| bearing off a map with a protractor compass is easy, but these aren't
| protractor compasses so you can't lay them on a map grid, so you'll need
| to take a protractor along with you, no about magnetic variation and
| generall be clued in about map and compass use. And even with all of
| that it will be of little use. A GPS, on the other hand, will tell you
| where you are and if you program in the destination it will always know
| not only the direction to your destination but how far it is and, with a
| little more effort you can program in the exact route you want to take
| to get there, point by point.
|
| > Neither watch has a feature that I _would_ like: gradient percentage -
| > the bike forums keep asking me about the gradient on my hill and I can't
| > tell you, except to say that there are parts of it that look like the
| > hypotenuse in my old math books.
|
| You won't get that from a watch, because you need to know both your
| altitude and horizontal travel at the same time to work out gradient.
| And a watch knows nothing much about your horizontal travel, so it can't
| do gradient. A GPS with a built in altimeter (like the Garmin Geko 301)
| recording a track will keep a record of it, but it eats batteries a lot
| quicker if you leave it on the whole time.
|
| What is easy, however, is working out the gradient by just looking at
| the map, assuming it has contours. Steep hills tend to have gradient
| warning on them saying how steep they are: observe and note.
|
| > Does anyone have experiences to relate
|
| To be quite frank I'd say don't bother. If you want navigation to be
| easier get a GPS. if you want to know what the weather will do look at
| a local forecast. The temperature function on all of these things only
| comes up with meaningful numbers when it isn't next to a warm radiating
| body (i.e., the wearer) so that's largely useless, barometer function is
| good if you're a keen amateur meteorologist but otherwise it just gives
| you a fairly meaningless number, and while the altitude is interesting
| in hilly country it loses most of the navigation appeal it has for
| Alpinism as you know you're on the road. Any GPS will give you an
| altitude estimate, a GPS with barometric altimeter will do all that a
| watch can do and more.
|
| > in Isle de France where the weather reports constantly predict storms
| > for 4 days on end, but then we only get 20 minutes of piddle, and I end
| > up not cycling when I could have!
|
| And that's with professionals and supercomputers and vast data grids, so
| do you really think a simple watch that only monitors pressure where it
| is will do better? It won't, so in practice if you trust it to tell you
| the weather then you'll miss days you could have taken and you'll get
| soaked when you thought you'd be dry. Rather than a watch, spend the
| money on a decent set of waterproofs that make rain much less of an
| issue is my advice.
|
| Pete.
| --
| Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
| Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
| Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
| net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/