Sydney crash

Patrick Turner

Fractal wrote:
>
> "OzCableguy" <ozcableguy@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:bJsWj.853$IK1.676@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >
> >
> > Zebee Johnstone" <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:slrng2kir0.gmm.zebeej@gmail.com...
> >> In aus.bicycle on Wed, 14 May 2008 11:34:46 +1000
> >
> >> They charge with what they think they can get to stick.
> >>
> >> Failing to stop is obviously an easy one. No contest.
> >>
> >
> > The main problem is it happened on the road so they can only charge him
> > with offences under the traffic act. Dangerous driving, failing to stop
> > etc. Sadly we don't have a vehicular homicide charge or similar in
> > Australia yet so it's up to the individual victims to lay their own
> > assault charges and/or damages claims.
> >
> > I doubt he'll get jail but, short of allowing the cyclists baseballs bats
> > and 30 mins alone with him, having to pay for the damage to all those
> > high-end bikes would be a most excellent outcome in this case I think.
> >
> > --
> > www.ozcableguy.com
> > www.oztechnologies.com
>
> There is Predatory Driving, brought in to target tailgaters or other
> threastening behaviour. But the definition of vehicle in this case doesnt
> include bicycle for some reason - seems an oversight to me.
>
> http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/...90082/s51a.html
>
> 51 A of the Crimes aCT
> <<
> The driver of a vehicle who, while in pursuit of or travelling near another
> vehicle:
> (a) engages in a course of conduct that causes or threatens an impact
> involving the other vehicle, and
> (b) intends by that course of conduct to cause a person in the other
> vehicle actual bodily harm,
> is guilty of an offence and liable to imprisonment for 5 years.
> >>
> fb


If the outcome of the court hearing appears to be unacceptable to
cyclists
involved in the crash, and to cyclists in general, then you could do a
lot worse than
protest pubically about it.

I suggest Sydney riders would need a lot of solidarity, but let us
suppose
100 riders slowly rode from Hornsby to Waverley court so that the
busiest of roads is blocked entirely
by cyclists for say 2 hours at 1pm on a sunday.
I'd say police will deal with you after about 2km, but you'd make your
point.
I strongly suggest you have a friend in a car following along to video
all the procedings,
and with a newspaper/media reporter.
Just don't run any red lights.

I recall the anti Vietnam War marches of the late '60s and early '70s.

Sure, these marches interupted road life for awhile, but thankfully
gave a hearing to pent up rage against the War, and the tragic loss of
many lives at the whim of politicians.

If you don't fight for your rights, they get whittled away slowly by Big
Brother.

Having said that, I am thankful for cycle paths in Canberra, and the
uncluttered lifestyle I have here, and that I don't have to fight too
many for my rights.
And if women with prams insist they ain't going to move over to let me
pass, OK,
not much I will do about it, a woman with a pram wheels Australia's
Future so
madame, take all the time you wish.


Patrick Turner.

EuanB

As far as I'm aware vehicle includes bicycles.

David Springthrope

On Wed, 14 May 2008 13:53:57 GMT, Patrick Turner <info@turneraudio.com.au>
wrote:

>And if women with prams insist they ain't going to move over to let me
>pass, OK,
>not much I will do about it, a woman with a pram wheels Australia's
>Future so
>madame, take all the time you wish.

And who knows, you might be the kid's father !

Dinsdale Pirana

On 14 May 2008 02:16:00 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote
in aus.bicycle:

>They charge with what they think they can get to stick.
>
>Failing to stop is obviously an easy one. No contest.

Yes I agree with you. And the other problem is that the cyclists ran
into the back of him. I think it has always been accepted that if you
run into the back of another vehicle then you are at fault. Not with
standing that he cut in front of them, arguably as soon as he did so
they should have slowed.


Regards
Dinsy

Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum - Lucretius

David Springthrope

On Thu, 15 May 2008 11:44:47 +1000, Dinsdale Pirana <Dinsdale@memento.mori.com>
wrote:

>Yes I agree with you. And the other problem is that the cyclists ran
>into the back of him. I think it has always been accepted that if you
>run into the back of another vehicle then you are at fault. Not with
>standing that he cut in front of them, arguably as soon as he did so
>they should have slowed.

They would perhaps correctly argue that they had no time to slow.....

John Henderson

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> In aus.bicycle on Thu, 15 May 2008 08:52:52 +1000
> EuanB <EuanB.39fayz@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>>
>> As far as I'm aware vehicle includes bicycles.
>
> In the Oz road rules it does.

But not it seems for the purposes of "Predatory driving" in NSW:

"vehicle" means:

(a) any motor car, motor carriage, motor cycle or other
vehicle propelled wholly or partly by volatile spirit, steam,
gas, oil, electricity, or by any other means other than human
or animal power, or

(b) a horse-drawn vehicle,"

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/...2a.html#vehicle

John

EuanB

Think you'll find that's covered by rules 144 and 148

144. Keeping a safe distance when overtaking
A driver overtaking a vehicle—
(a) must pass the vehicle at a sufficient distance to avoid a collision with
the vehicle or obstructing the path of the vehicle; and
(b) must not return to the marked lane or line of traffic where the vehicle is
travelling until the driver is a sufficient distance past the vehicle to avoid
a collision with the vehicle or obstructing the path of the vehicle.
Penalty: 5 penalty units.
Note Marked lane and overtake are defined in the dictionary.

...

148. Giving way when moving from one marked lane or line of traffic to another
marked lane or line of traffic
(1) A driver on a multi-lane road who is moving from one marked lane (whether
or not the lane is ending) to another marked lane must give way to any vehicle
travelling in the same direction as the driver in the marked lane to which the
driver is moving.
Penalty: 3 penalty units.
Note 1 Marked lane and multi-lane road are defined in the dictionary.
Note 2 For this rule, give way means the driver must slow down and, if necessary, stop to
avoid a collision—see the definition in the dictionary.

(2) A driver on a road with 2 or more lines of traffic travelling in the same direction
as the driver, and who is moving from one line of traffic to another line of
traffic, must give way to any vehicle travelling in the same direction as the
driver in the line of traffic to which the driver is moving.
Penalty: 3 penalty units.
(3) Subrule (2) does not apply to a driver if the line of traffic in which the driver is
driving is merging with the line of traffic to which the driver is moving.
Note Rule 149 deals with giving way when lines of traffic merge.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/r...D/0/part_11.pdf

EuanB

So cyclists slip through the same crack that allow us to ride bikes while over .05.

terryc

On Thu, 15 May 2008 11:44:47 +1000, Dinsdale Pirana wrote:


> Yes I agree with you. And the other problem is that the cyclists ran
> into the back of him. I think it has always been accepted that if you
> run into the back of another vehicle then you are at fault. Not with
> standing that he cut in front of them, arguably as soon as he did so
> they should have slowed.

Except that he had prior history with the group.
Indicates intent.