unabashed plug, Crumpton

dustoyevsky@mac.com

I guess this would fit in the "local pride" category:

http://link.brightcove.com/services...ctid=1539505273

Yeah yeah, I know the source. Offered in spite of.

Suffice to say, the guy who owns this bike is somewhat patiently
waiting for it to re-appear from the bowels of Shipping (and Bicycling
Magazine).

Don't own one myself, still struggling along with inferior, scrounged
Ti castoffs. Such is life. --D-y

Chalo

dustoyevsky wrote:
>
> I guess this would fit in the "local pride" category:
>
> http://link.brightcove.com/services...0420?bctid=1539...
>
> Yeah yeah, I know the source. Offered in spite of.
>
> Suffice to say, the guy who owns this bike is somewhat patiently
> waiting for it to re-appear from the bowels of Shipping (and Bicycling
> Magazine).

Funny-- I've been part of the cycling scene here in Austin for over
twenty years, minus the years of 2001-2006 that I spent in Seattle.
I've never even heard of Nick Crumpton or his bikes. I guess he must
limit his public interface to only the scowling plum-smugglers of our
fair city.

I wonder how much he'd charge for a longtail cargo bike frame? Or a
sociable tandem? I think handbuilding should be used where it yields
noteworthy benefits. I mean, can't someone buy a plastic road bike
basically indistinguishable from that one just about anywhere for a
whole lot less money?

I guess a lot of folks who are indiscriminate enough to drop $9k on a
bike must want something just like what they've already got, only more
expensive. If one of the consequences is a guy making bikes by hand
and earning a decent living for his work, though, then that's OK by
me.

Chalo

Ryan Cousineau

In article
<e6625ef2-89f0-40c6-8ec4-8a3ede34d7e0@r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:

> dustoyevsky wrote:
> >
> > I guess this would fit in the "local pride" category:
> >
> > http://link.brightcove.com/services...0420?bctid=1539...
> >
> > Yeah yeah, I know the source. Offered in spite of.
> >
> > Suffice to say, the guy who owns this bike is somewhat patiently
> > waiting for it to re-appear from the bowels of Shipping (and Bicycling
> > Magazine).
>
> Funny-- I've been part of the cycling scene here in Austin for over
> twenty years, minus the years of 2001-2006 that I spent in Seattle.
> I've never even heard of Nick Crumpton or his bikes. I guess he must
> limit his public interface to only the scowling plum-smugglers of our
> fair city.

> I mean, can't someone buy a plastic road bike
> basically indistinguishable from that one just about anywhere for a
> whole lot less money?

But the Crumpton SL is stiff, yet compliant. The Seven was stiffer, but
not as compliant.

Holy moly. I hadn't watched the video before I wrote this. At 1:26 on
the video, the reviewer talks about how the frame has the stiffness of a
race bike, but the comfort of a "plush" (?) bike.

I thought we were only joking here when we accused Bicycling of doing
that.

Functionally, I think the mass-produced bikes (pick one) are similar,
but the reviewer also praises its aesthetic qualities, and I can't find
hi-res enough photos to comment either way.

I'm pretty uninterested in the aesthetics of bicycles that are otherwise
functional, but it's a legitimate differentiation.

--
Ryan Cousineau rcousine@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Chalo

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>
> Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >http://link.brightcove.com/services...0420?bctid=1539....
> >
> > I mean, can't someone buy a plastic road bike
> > basically indistinguishable from that one just about anywhere for a
> > whole lot less money?
>
> But the Crumpton SL is stiff, yet compliant. The Seven was stiffer, but
> not as compliant.
>
> Holy moly. I hadn't watched the video before I wrote this. At 1:26 on
> the video, the reviewer talks about how the frame has the stiffness of a
> race bike, but the comfort of a "plush" (?) bike.
>
> I thought we were only joking here when we accused Bicycling of doing
> that.
>
> Functionally, I think the mass-produced bikes (pick one) are similar,
> but the reviewer also praises its aesthetic qualities, and I can't find
> hi-res enough photos to comment either way.
>
> I'm pretty uninterested in the aesthetics of bicycles that are otherwise
> functional, but it's a legitimate differentiation.

Here's an article with nice detail shots of teh Crumpz0rz:

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=3956
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...cyclingnews.com

It reminds me of a fancy bowling ball or accordion. Here are some of
the highlights of the accompanying review:

"A marked contrast is in the seat tube, and that makes perfect sense,
as the tube it’s self performs a bit different job than the others…
You’ll notice a spiral pattern and it’s a thickness that will give
some stability against bending (different than twisting), but also do
a good job of absorbing vibration."

"All of the joints are minimal… And all are wrapped with not just
size, but function in mind, a bit like wrapping an ankle for a
sporting event (to keep it from twisting to the sides but allow
freedom of movement vertically. Meaning the wrap will resist twist
more, but allow for some vertical compliance. Roughly translated,
that’s stiff for power, but soft for ride…"

"The Crumpton is stiff enough to cost you no power loss. The
acceleration is what you would expect from a very light very stiff
bike. The road holding during rougher surface turns is extremely
impressive as the frame and fork will flex well enough to not cause
the tires to skip and chatter the way some of the overly stiff newer
bikes can."

"...the twist control (providing the stiffness) is, to some degree,
done in a way that doesn’t prevent some of the bounce that is lacking
in some carbon bikes today."

I'm sure it comes equipped with a saddle that is hard and narrow for
austerity yet soft and wide for comfort, spokes that are short
radially while remaining remarkably long from end to end, and bar tape
that is wrapped counterclockwise without sacrificing its traditional
clockwise-wrapped qualities.

Chalo

bjw@mambo.ucolick.org

On May 7, 1:28*pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> dustoyevsky wrote:
>
> > I guess this would fit in the "local pride" category:
>
> >http://link.brightcove.com/services...0420?bctid=1539....
>
> > Yeah yeah, I know the source. Offered in spite of.
>
> > Suffice to say, the guy who owns this bike is somewhat patiently
> > waiting for it to re-appear from the bowels of Shipping (and Bicycling
> > Magazine).
>
> Funny-- I've been part of the cycling scene here in Austin for over
> twenty years, minus the years of 2001-2006 that I spent in Seattle.
> I've never even heard of Nick Crumpton or his bikes. *I guess he must
> limit his public interface to only the scowling plum-smugglers of our
> fair city.
>
> I wonder how much he'd charge for a longtail cargo bike frame? *Or a
> sociable tandem? *I think handbuilding should be used where it yields
> noteworthy benefits. *I mean, can't someone buy a plastic road bike
> basically indistinguishable from that one just about anywhere for a
> whole lot less money?
>
> I guess a lot of folks who are indiscriminate enough to drop $9k on a
> bike must want something just like what they've already got, only more
> expensive. *If one of the consequences is a guy making bikes by hand
> and earning a decent living for his work, though, then that's OK by
> me.

You could equally well argue that any of the small
American frame building shops in the 70s and 80s that
made steel bikes, made race bikes that were more or
less just as good for racing as an off-the-rack Benotto,
Bianchi, or Cinelli, and therefore none of them should
have bothered. That would have been a damn shame.
And most of them couldn't have kept the doors open
by building only for tourists and commuters without
the trade from racers.

I have no particular desire for a stupid-expensive frame
like that. I do see that even people who do things with bicycles
that aren't to your taste might appreciate a bike that is made
custom, or just like the idea of buying something from
the person who made it.

Small businesses like framebuilders aren't a zero-sum
game. A guy who spends his time building high-zoot
carbon frames isn't taking away any chances for others to
build useful bikes. I would argue that the more small
builders, the better, as it makes more people aware
that you can get things from craftsmen as opposed to
conglomerates.

What that video really made me wonder about was,
where were they riding? I thought they said near
Pasadena, but some of those roads looked a lot more
rural than I'd expect for that area (and some looked
too flat to be the Angeles Crest Highway).

Ben

Michael Press

In article
<f8095f01-acce-4910-b76a-982f1ee735ab@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
Chalo <chalo.colina@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> >
> > Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >http://link.brightcove.com/services...0420?bctid=1539...
> > >
> > > I mean, can't someone buy a plastic road bike
> > > basically indistinguishable from that one just about anywhere for a
> > > whole lot less money?
> >
> > But the Crumpton SL is stiff, yet compliant. The Seven was stiffer, but
> > not as compliant.
> >
> > Holy moly. I hadn't watched the video before I wrote this. At 1:26 on
> > the video, the reviewer talks about how the frame has the stiffness of a
> > race bike, but the comfort of a "plush" (?) bike.
> >
> > I thought we were only joking here when we accused Bicycling of doing
> > that.
> >
> > Functionally, I think the mass-produced bikes (pick one) are similar,
> > but the reviewer also praises its aesthetic qualities, and I can't find
> > hi-res enough photos to comment either way.
> >
> > I'm pretty uninterested in the aesthetics of bicycles that are otherwise
> > functional, but it's a legitimate differentiation.
>
> Here's an article with nice detail shots of teh Crumpz0rz:
>
> http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=3956
> http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...cyclingnews.com
>
> It reminds me of a fancy bowling ball or accordion. Here are some of
> the highlights of the accompanying review:
>
> "A marked contrast is in the seat tube, and that makes perfect sense,
> as the tube it¹s self performs a bit different job than the othersŠ
> You¹ll notice a spiral pattern and it¹s a thickness that will give
> some stability against bending (different than twisting), but also do
> a good job of absorbing vibration."
>
> "All of the joints are minimalŠ And all are wrapped with not just
> size, but function in mind, a bit like wrapping an ankle for a
> sporting event (to keep it from twisting to the sides but allow
> freedom of movement vertically. Meaning the wrap will resist twist
> more, but allow for some vertical compliance. Roughly translated,
> that¹s stiff for power, but soft for rideŠ"
>
> "The Crumpton is stiff enough to cost you no power loss. The
> acceleration is what you would expect from a very light very stiff
> bike. The road holding during rougher surface turns is extremely
> impressive as the frame and fork will flex well enough to not cause
> the tires to skip and chatter the way some of the overly stiff newer
> bikes can."
>
> "...the twist control (providing the stiffness) is, to some degree,
> done in a way that doesn¹t prevent some of the bounce that is lacking
> in some carbon bikes today."
>
> I'm sure it comes equipped with a saddle that is hard and narrow for
> austerity yet soft and wide for comfort, spokes that are short
> radially while remaining remarkably long from end to end, and bar tape
> that is wrapped counterclockwise without sacrificing its traditional
> clockwise-wrapped qualities.

"The special part of Nick¹s bikes lies in his joining the tubes...
He of course starts with an extremely accurate tube cut and finish
that lets him basically call out angles down to fractions of degrees.
This allows for geometry with true nuance as I was able to spec
very slight changes to the Geometry that I have used on the past
two or three other custom frames in just the past year
(rough life, but some one has to...). I specified angles down
to the hundredth of degree and Nick knocked em out using some
fairly expensive gear..."

Ooohh! Nuances.

Fifteen yards for illegal use of ellipses...

--
Michael Press

dustoyevsky@mac.com

On May 8, 12:56*am, "b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <b...@mambo.ucolick.org>
wrote:

excuse me, snipped content just to get a place to post (but thanks for
a reasoned answer).

Still unabashed.

Well, we'll give it another day. Nighty-night. --D-y

dustoyevsky@mac.com

On May 7, 3:28*pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Funny-- I've been part of the cycling scene here in Austin for over
> twenty years, minus the years of 2001-2006 that I spent in Seattle.
> I've never even heard of Nick Crumpton or his bikes. *I guess he must
> limit his public interface to only the scowling plum-smugglers of our
> fair city.

What's a plum smuggler?

> I wonder how much he'd charge for a longtail cargo bike frame? *Or a
> sociable tandem?

Why be sarcastic? Yes, these are "race bikes". What's the problem?

> *I think handbuilding should be used where it yields
> noteworthy benefits.

Noteworthy benefits seem to be the subject of the review. I've heard
testimonials from an owner or two. Um, professional people who haven't
been hypnotized or drugged as far as I know.

If the objection is to "bike whores" writing pie-in-the-sky
advertising in the form of phony "reviews", perhaps Seven's ad budget
(and general corporate largeness, fame, prestige, political clout,
etc. etc.) should be compared to Crumpton's "one guy in his little
shop" operation in Austin.

>*I mean, can't someone buy a plastic road bike
> basically indistinguishable from that one just about anywhere for a
> whole lot less money?

No.

> I guess a lot of folks who are indiscriminate enough to drop $9k on a
> bike must want something just like what they've already got, only more
> expensive.

"Indiscriminate"? That's taking on a lot, frankly speaking.

>*If one of the consequences is a guy making bikes by hand
> and earning a decent living for his work, though, then that's OK by
> me.

That price point enables a "decent living", via spending a lot of time
working at making frames and promoting, etc. Which way do you want to
slice this luncheon loaf, Chalo? --D-y

dustoyevsky@mac.com

On May 8, 12:03*am, Chalo wrote:

> It reminds me of a fancy bowling ball or accordion.

Beauty, eye of beholder.

Suffice to say, I saw another Crumpton in person, broad daylight
yesterday. With your bowling ball, accordion comment firmly in mind;
WTH, it's not my bike! Um, appreciation entirely undiminished. This
one is a darker, purple-ish color. The effect is more subtle (and more
subtle yet in black or very dark grey) but still v. attractive in a
more "formal" way, if you will. The brighter red of the test bike,
which I have also seen live and in the carbon fiber, is a knock-out
(opinion expressed as such). Yeah, an accordion should look so good...

>*Here are some of
> the highlights of the accompanying review:
>
> "A marked contrast is in the seat tube, and that makes perfect sense,
> as the tube it’s self performs a bit different job than the others…
> You’ll notice a spiral pattern and it’s a thickness that will give
> some stability against bending (different than twisting), but also do
> a good job of absorbing vibration."
>
> "All of the joints are minimal… And all are wrapped with not just
> size, but function in mind, a bit like wrapping an ankle for a
> sporting event (to keep it from twisting to the sides but allow
> freedom of movement vertically. Meaning the wrap will resist twist
> more, but allow for some vertical compliance. Roughly translated,
> that’s stiff for power, but soft for ride…"
>
> "The Crumpton is stiff enough to cost you no power loss. The
> acceleration is what you would expect from a very light very stiff
> bike. The road holding during rougher surface turns is extremely
> impressive as the frame and fork will flex well enough to not cause
> the tires to skip and chatter the way some of the overly stiff newer
> bikes can."
>
> "...the twist control (providing the stiffness) is, to some degree,
> done in a way that doesn’t prevent some of the bounce that is lacking
> in some carbon bikes today." [end quote from review]

> I'm sure it comes equipped with a saddle that is hard and narrow for
> austerity yet soft and wide for comfort, spokes that are short
> radially while remaining remarkably long from end to end, and bar tape
> that is wrapped counterclockwise without sacrificing its traditional
> clockwise-wrapped qualities.

I don't read the review as per your reaction (just above) at all. The
reviewers (taking at their word as presented) liked the way the
Crumpton rode, in preference to a couple of other "dream" (cost no
object) frames, while the Crumpton was much, much cheaper than the
most expensive "other". One owner testimonial I've heard was in regard
to a greatly reduced amount of hand punishment during a road race on
bumpy, nasty chip-n-seal, compared to the steel frame he'd been racing
on. That's a result we'd be looking for with improvements in materials
and build methods, no?

Looking more at the big picture: Frankly, the point of the exercise is
to win the contest and so good deal for Nick Crumpton. Um, he's kinda
grouchy sometimes (<g>, please) and I've never been to his house for
dinner, to address another possible area of discussion, and I'm not a
prospective customer looking to get bumped up the wait list or trying
to wrangle a price break. I don't know if he's heard of rbt, either
<g>. Pretty complete disclaimer, I guess. "Local pride" and, although
bashed, still an un_a_bashed plug.

The ironic thing here, to me, is that I've seen some of your "home
work", where you've made bike parts that work for you (via email you
sent me) and expressed honest appreciation, FWIW. But the point is, I
think you and Nick, "politics" aside, would have things to talk about,
bicyclingly speaking.

Just as a side note, I was talking to Nick on a ride a week or so ago,
IRT stay length and room between the chainstays for "wider" tires,
since I'd noticed that one of his customer bikes had a whole lot more
"tire clearance" just aft of the BB than his personal ride. The brake
bridge on the customer bike was quite a bit higher, also. How about
that, a well-regarded custom CF builder leaving room for 25mm tires,
mud, and out-of-true wheels? There's some progress for you! <g>

OK, gotta go check the Lotto numbers... --D-y

A Muzi

> Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Funny-- I've been part of the cycling scene here in Austin for over
>> twenty years, minus the years of 2001-2006 that I spent in Seattle.
>> I've never even heard of Nick Crumpton or his bikes. I guess he must
>> limit his public interface to only the scowling plum-smugglers of our
>> fair city.

dustoyevsky@mac.com wrote:
> What's a plum smuggler?
-snip-
http://www.funnycoolstuff.com/2006/...re-always-black
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

dustoyevsky@mac.com

On May 9, 10:58*am, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

http://www.funnycoolstuff.com/2006/...horts-are-alway...

This one loads a lot faster:

http://cucinatestarossa.blogs.com/p...ke_shorts_1.jpg

I think the picture is a little bigger, too. --D-y

Chalo

dustoyevsky wrote:
>
> Just as a side note, I was talking to Nick on a ride a week or so ago,
> IRT stay length and room between the chainstays for "wider" tires,
> since I'd noticed that one of his customer bikes had a whole lot more
> "tire clearance" just aft of the BB than his personal ride. The brake
> bridge on the customer bike was quite a bit higher, also. How about
> that, a well-regarded custom CF builder leaving room for 25mm tires,
> mud, and out-of-true wheels? There's some progress for you! <g>

Now that is a good thing. I wonder how he managed it with prefab stay
units?

I used to hang out occasionally with this guy at Dead Baby Bikes
events:

http://www.outsideconnection.com/gallant/hpv/joe/

Joe would occasionally become visibly irritated and perturbed that I
would spend so much time and expertise making ordinary bikes, as
opposed to some ungainly feet-forward abortions. He thought it was a
waste of my effort. Now I find myself in Joe's position, thinking in
regard to Nick's bikes "why bother, when you could buy almost the same
thing on eBay for less than the cost of materials?"

I guess it's like curly lugs. I don't mind curly lugs, but I'll be
damned before I'll spend a fortune and years on a waiting list to get
a bike whose only real distinction is curly lugs. Still, there are
folks who do go to absurd lengths to get curly lugs (and the maker's
mark thereof).

As for me, I don't opt in to being choosy. I can either be choosy, or
I can give up cycling, or I can hurt myself. If I were 5'10" and 150
lbs., and every manufacturer of every bike-related thing in the entire
world made something that would work just fine for me, I suppose I
might get distracted by minutiae. But to my eyes, every bike with
73.5 degree angles, short stays, plastic forks, too few spokes and too
little tire clearance is so interchangeable with all the others as to
become invisible. They all make me say "meh". I wouldn't know how to
pick from among them except by weight and price.

Chalo

Buster Mudd

On May 9, 5:03*pm, Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I wouldn't know how to
> pick from among them except by weight



Oooh, there goes *your* credibility.

Ted Bennett

Ryan Cousineau wrote:


> Hm. What about a one-stop commuter nexus in a downtown core? Valet bike
> storage, on-site showers and lockers, bike shop with same-day service
> for repairs, and (oh, why not...) a bit of coffee service? The trick
> would be getting a central enough location that you had a viable
> customer base, but such a business would have a chance of being a
> game-changer: actually creating bike commuters by virtue of easing some
> of the pain.




Check. Bike Central here in Portland.

http://www.portlandonline.com/trans...c=34813&a=58381


Ted

--
Ted Bennett