SPD Agony!

PoB

"dkahn400" <dkahn400@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:a1560111-1d72-49a3-a756-ea72198d5a2a@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>On May 7, 6:32 am, "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote:
>The long term solution which I'm surprised no-one has mentioned yet
>may be SPD sandals. Many long distance riders swear by them.

I'd second this. On long rides my sandals are infinitely better than my
shoes (and being British, when it's chilly, I can wear socks .

One other point I'd come back on, I can't wear Specialized shoes, and whilst
I do like most Spec BG kit, they're not at all right for my feet and cause
me all sorts of problems, maybe because my feet are very narrow - most
Shimano boots and, possibly indicatively, the cheap shoes from Lidl are
better for me.

Best of luck.

pOB

Dave Larrington

In news:a1560111-1d72-49a3-a756-ea72198d5a2a@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
dkahn400 <dkahn400@googlemail.com> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

> The long term solution which I'm surprised no-one has mentioned yet
> may be SPD sandals. Many long distance riders swear by them.

And some of them swear *at* them. Perhaps I've just got odd-shaped plates,
but the only time I tried 'em, my feet were dead after 5km. This is a bit
of a bind when there are still 300 to go :-(

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
My liver is evil, and must be punished.

Dave Larrington

In news:8c061150-8515-47cb-934f-b0d028e4152d@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
Artemisia <e.roselli@free.fr> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

> Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
> easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
> be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
> pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.
>
> Is this normal?

In my not-at-all-extensive experience of using SPDs, yes, this is entirely
normal. Well, the clipping-in bit anyway. *Nasty* things.

Also, Spesh's so-called "Body Geometry" stuffs are modelled on a body
almost, but not quite, entirely unlike mine. I had a pair of such shoes
once and suffered similar agonies until I bit the bullet, swallowed the
expense and bought a pair of Carnacs.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Confirmed LOOK user.

Peter Clinch

Artemisia wrote:

> I do have a pair of normal shoes with me. I'm afraid to use them on
> the trike. I'm finding this is quite a hassle, having shoes that can
> only walk but not bike, and other shoes that can only bike and not
> walk!

It's not impossible to use SPuD pedals with normal shoes, especially
those with an extended platform.

And it /should/ be okay to walk moderate distances in tour/MTB style
cycle shoes (to the extent where I don't bother taking spare shoes on
tour with me). If you can't walk any distance at all without serious
discomfort then they're just the wrong shoes, I would say.

As with other respondents here, I very much favour SPuD sandals, but one
thing to note is that on a 'bent you'll have a lot more weight than most
folk on the rear strap. Roos had a bit of achilles trouble from that
the first time she had them on a long tour.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch

Dave Larrington wrote:
>
> In my not-at-all-extensive experience of using SPDs, yes, this is entirely
> normal. Well, the clipping-in bit anyway. *Nasty* things.

Note: I suspect Mr. L is complaining about the specific implementation
of the Shimano Pedalling Dynamics (SPD) system, *not* clipless pedals in
general.

Personally I prefer Time ATACs to SPuDs, and I know other regulars on
urc also favour them. Crank Eggbeaters aslo have an enthusiastic
following. The Look system is popular with performance cyclists, but
getting shoes that take the cleats and enable you to walk easily as well
is problematical. ATAC cleats will fit pretty well any shoe that takes
SPuDs. What SPuDs have that these other systems don't is ubiquity, with
many people equating "SPD" and "clipless pedal system". I've not seen
any persuasive argument that they're in any way better than the rest of
the market they dominate.

> Also, Spesh's so-called "Body Geometry" stuffs are modelled on a body
> almost, but not quite, entirely unlike mine.

Haven't tried their shoes since they changed to BG, but the BG saddles
seem to be made up to fit backsides almost, but not quite, entirely
unlike mine.

> I had a pair of such shoes
> once and suffered similar agonies until I bit the bullet, swallowed the
> expense and bought a pair of Carnacs.

You just have to try everything you can. My last shoes were pre-BG
Speccies, which I thought were okay but when they eventually died I
found Diadoras suited me better.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

David Damerell

Quoting Artemisia <e.roselli@free.fr>:
>Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
>unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet.

IIRC you're on a recumbent trike? Suggest abandoning the clips and tying
your feet to the pedals to avoid leg suck - obviously if you're just
strapping them down, you can strap them down in a different position.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is First Sunday, May - a weekend.

wafflycat

"Dave Larrington" <smert.spamionam@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:68d7pkF2rr66bU3@mid.individual.net...
> In news:8c061150-8515-47cb-934f-b0d028e4152d@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
> Artemisia <e.roselli@free.fr> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
>
>> Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
>> easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
>> be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
>> pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.
>>
>> Is this normal?
>
> In my not-at-all-extensive experience of using SPDs, yes, this is entirely
> normal. Well, the clipping-in bit anyway. *Nasty* things.

Must admit, I can't get on with spds. Look pedals/cleats are the ones for
me.

Roger Merriman

wafflycat <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote:

> "Dave Larrington" <smert.spamionam@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:68d7pkF2rr66bU3@mid.individual.net...
> > In news:8c061150-8515-47cb-934f-b0d028e4152d@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com,
> > Artemisia <e.roselli@free.fr> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
> >
> >> Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
> >> easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
> >> be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
> >> pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.
> >>
> >> Is this normal?
> >
> > In my not-at-all-extensive experience of using SPDs, yes, this is entirely
> > normal. Well, the clipping-in bit anyway. *Nasty* things.
>
> Must admit, I can't get on with spds. Look pedals/cleats are the ones for
> me.

i've recently got some SPD peddles to go with the specilised shoes i've
had for a while and the old 10 speed racer.

my knees have never been great far too much yomping down scree slopes as
a lad. so needed the springs set too very loose and seems to work fine
just now and then they require further stamping to connect but steping
out is fine, even on monday when i struck the pedal on the ground, had
forgotten road bikes are so low...

no damadge done bar minor dent to pride!

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Alan Braggins

In article <79e21892-78d7-4495-bc4a-8e5b8d9f3dd0@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, Artemisia wrote:
>
>I do have a pair of normal shoes with me. I'm afraid to use them on
>the trike.

You could consider changing to traditional toeclips with straps, but
I have a suspicion that just doing up a strap tight enough that a foot
in a recumbent riding position can't possibly fall out will be painfully
restrictive given your current problems. Maybe someone with actual
experience can comment - it might still be better than going on as
you are.
(If you nailed traditional cleats to the bottom of your shoes as well,
then the traditional clips and straps would be more secure, but then
they wouldn't be normal shoes for walking in any more. Assuming they
are the sort of shoe you could nail things to the sole in the first place,
which they probably aren't)

The usual downside of the traditional system is that it's harder to get
out of when done up tight than clipless pedals (you have to reach down
and loosen the strap first), but since you are on a trike, you won't fall
over if you can't put a foot down (which is a good thing, given the problems
you are having with the clipless pedals - but that isn't normal).

Or try something like these: http://powergrips.mrpbike.com/pg_benefits.shtml

But, as other people have said, properly fitting SPD shoes with recessed
cleats shouldn't cause the problems you describe and it should be possible
to walk in them.

Alan Braggins

In article <68d5hiF2t292oU1@mid.individual.net>, Peter Clinch wrote:
>you. Also, it sounds like the cleat is in the wrong place, and this
>needs a bit of fiddling to get right. By "a bit of fiddling" I mean 10
>minutes trial and error on and off the bike, nudging them about until
>they feel right. Start with the cleat as far back as it will go and
>gradually push them forward, lock them at the right position.

But do remember that every time you nudge them, you do have to do them up
tight enough that you can unclip without wrenching them out of position
when you try them on the pedals.
This is probably so obvious to Pete that it went without saying, and
maybe is to you as well, but I mention it just in case, because it's
quite embarrassing when you forget. I mean, um, so I hear....

Peter Clinch

Alan Braggins wrote:

> You could consider changing to traditional toeclips with straps, but
> I have a suspicion that just doing up a strap tight enough that a foot
> in a recumbent riding position can't possibly fall out will be painfully
> restrictive given your current problems.

at the bottom of http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/html/specials.shtml
there's a Hase product with a heel stirrup, specifically for using on
recumbents with a toe strap. Never used them, but compared to a
practised twist in a decent clipless system I imagine they'd be much
more of a faff getting in and out.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch

Alan Braggins wrote:

> But do remember that every time you nudge them, you do have to do them up
> tight enough that you can unclip without wrenching them out of position
> when you try them on the pedals.
> This is probably so obvious to Pete that it went without saying, and
> maybe is to you as well, but I mention it just in case, because it's
> quite embarrassing when you forget. I mean, um, so I hear....

Good point!

Less embarrassing on a trike, mind you, you just unlace your shoes and
step out of them and then try and lever them off the pedal by hand,
rather than keel over sideways and land in the road, inevitably in front
of spectators. Still, it'd be better to just do them up properly, mind...

And a tip for screwing them up in any case is to smear a little grease
onto the bolt threads before you start. This makes it easier to do them
up tight, so they don't shift when twisting your foot, but also makes it
easier to undo them /deliberately/ when it's time to change (or move)
the cleat.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Colin MacDonald

On 7 May, 08:54, Artemisia <e.rose...@free.fr> wrote:
> On 6 mai, 19:38, a...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Alan Braggins) wrote:
>
> > Most SPD shoes have two pairs of holes in a plate which can be moved
> > forward and back at least a little bit.
>
> I went back to the hotel room to check. After prying away all the
> caked mud with the multi-tool, I did indeed find two sets of holes
> underneath. I moved the cleats onto the lower pair. We'll see
> tomorrow, short ride, if that makes any difference.

As well as the additional holes, you should find that when you loosen
the bolts the whole cleat+plate assembly should be able to move around
(up to a point), though you might have to force it a bit just to free
it up. This gives you finer adjustment back-to-front as well as
allowing you to slightly rotate the cleats and move them side-to-side
a little. It can take quite a while to get them just right so that
they feel natural.

As others have said, though, try loosening the laces a little. The
shoes should be relatively tight, but not uncomfortably so.

Again, as others have said, it could be the shoes are just too small.
If your toes can touch the end of the shoe then it's not a good sign.

Colin

Roger Zoul

PoB wrote:
:: "dkahn400" <dkahn400@googlemail.com> wrote in message
:: news:a1560111-1d72-49a3-a756-ea72198d5a2a@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
::: On May 7, 6:32 am, "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com>
::: wrote: The long term solution which I'm surprised no-one has
::: mentioned yet may be SPD sandals. Many long distance riders swear
::: by them.
::
:: I'd second this. On long rides my sandals are infinitely better
:: than my shoes (and being British, when it's chilly, I can wear socks
:: .
::

Well, I'm a diabetic and suffer from hot foot, but don't have any issues
other than on long rides in the heat. I can do centuriers in the
fall/spring and do not suffer hot foot. When the temps go up I do. I have
a pair of well-fitting SPD sandals (Lakes). They don't help.

I think the best approach is to get well-fitting shoes with very stiff
soles. They feet must be kept cool and there should be no long-duration
pressure points.

On, and the notion of fully unloading the sole intermittently while
pedaling, while it sounds good, is not something I have been able to achieve
on long rides.