Astana to ride the Giro

Eldron

I'm a fan not an almanac so correct me if I'm wrong....

He rode on a team that might have had systematic doping - he himself was never caught...

He was thrown out of the Tour along with the rest of Astana but he himself was never caught...

As far as I know he has never tested positive. Again I mght be wrong but can't remember a positive.

Suspect as much as you like I say but to make a definitive "he's a farkin doper" statement is unfair and irresponsible.

Personalise it a bit - how would you react if a few people at your work place were bust for fraud and suddenly you found yourself without a job and not able to get another. Most people here seem happy to support exactly that line of thinking...

thunder

definitely doping.

See how Dekker fell off the pace, and he is doping big time.

Eldron

I completely agree on the watching cycling - when the TV is on doping is the last thing on my mind. I just love cycling in any way, shape or form - from riders to technology, to carbon and braving the elements to get fitter. Wicked sport.

I also agree doping needs to go - I just have no idea how to get there. My feeling is - as long as the teams have more money to spend on doping then the officials have to find dopers the problem will exist. EPO is a good example - teams and riders were onto the benefits of EPO looong before the officials knew about it and made it illegal (hello Lance Armstrong). It's my opinion the teams/riders are using drugs the officials have yet to find or learn about...sad but true.

Eldron

Dekker who? Young Thomas Dekker with little to no pedigree gets whipped by Kloden who has podiumed at several grand tours and that proves he's on drugs?

Or does it prove Dekker is not on drugs?

Or that Bruyneel has better drugs than Dekker's team?

Or maybe neither are doping and Kloden is just a better rider....

Do you know enough to use the word "definitely"? Methinks not.

TheDarkLord

These are exactly the arguments given by doping apologists. X didn't test positive; no evidence that he cheated, etc. etc. Take a look at the confessions of riders who have retired. Everyone points to a picture of doping that is very prevalent in the sport. The higher-ups have a very casual attitude towards doping, and IMO just bust a few cases to give the impression that they are on top of it. In the case of Kloeden, he was mentioned in the Freiburg investigation (if wrong, someone please correct). Given how all his team-mates were into doping, it would be extremely unlikely that he alone was not into it. And it is not like the dopers are not getting a job after being busted. The only ones having difficulty are the ones that are being persecuted by UCI for breaking the omerta or for other personal reasons (personal to Heiny/McQuaid). So, your job analogy doesn't fly.

Bikeridindude

I'd say that his/most cyclists didication to entertaining fans is marginal. Dedication to getting a paycheck and the glory of winning is more like it.

Leafer

Close your eyes and just pretend it's real.

No thanks.

earth_dweller

Still great at spin, I can't believe that Bruyneel didn't prepare his riders for this. Especially as the talks started about 1 month ago (officially), so they're all juiced up and ready to go.

Now the staff, yeah he didn't warn them, but we know that Bruyneel doesn't care about the staff, look at that 'I'm retiring move... go find another job' that he pulled last year, late in the season.

edit: fixed some errors before the grammar police gets on my case

Cobblestones

Kloden, like Ulrich are products of the East German system. They probably were on the GDR program from age 12 on. Was Kloden doping with T-Mobile? Was he on the famous trip to Freiburg the day after Ulrich was banned from the TdF? I think the answer is most likely yes. Was he on gear with Astana last year when Vino and Kash were busted? Probably. Is he now on Bruyneel's hot sauce? I actually have no good idea. I interpreted comments by Bruyneel, Contador, Leipheimer earlier this year in a way that Kloden was not part of the 'inner circle' of the 'new' Astana. I see new comments coming out stressing how good a 'team player' Kloden is (which sounds like code-speak for not doing a 'Jaksche'). I guess we'll see how the Giro is going for the three. Kloden should be near a peak given his win in the Romandie. I don't know what race LL and Contador were counting on, but it was most definitely not the Giro and probably nothing in May. So I don't think they're peaking anytime soon.

ETA: Maybe I'm naive about LL and Contadors level of preparation given earthdweller's post above.

grampi

If giro is a true goal for A.C. then he is most probobaly on blood therapy right now. Same for Leipheimer. Brajkovic said Astana got their card for Giro at the beginning of march. The real reason why Zomegnan didnt invite astana at first was their selection. They picked Brajkovic as a captain at first, but after Prudhommes decision, Bruyneel offered Contador and despite his high etical standards, Zomegnan accepted new "cleaner" version of Astana. Such dirty moves kill every little hope of cleaning this sport. F**k you Zomegnan

slovakguy

haven't we beaten the doping topic to death? doesn't anyone care a rap about how this will impact contador's chances to clinch olympic & vuelta glory?

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TheDarkLord

The cunning b@$t@rd has covered all holes. If his boys don't do well, he has a ready excuse for that result. If they do well, then we will hear spin about how great they are to perform so well in spite of inadequate preparation... No wonder the Cult worships him so much.

Wayne666

I don't think so. I think they weren't selected because the organizers battle with the UCI over the PT was still in doubt at that point and most important was it's defeat. Now that it is defeated the door could be opened at any race for Astana (as it could have been for Unibet last year). ASO maybe can not invite Astana because they played the doping card to justify their exclusion, but we all know the real reason was the PT had to be defeated.

I'm not saying RCS maybe didn't use the Astana exclusion to twist their arms a little bit to get them to bring their top riders, but that was never the reason they weren't invited in the first place. The PT had to be defeated and Astana was the sacrificial team this year just like Unibet was last year.

RdBiker

You are probably spot on about their preparation. Every cyclist knows that it takes time to peak. Yes you can be on good form from february to september with a little dip in the summer but you can't be on peak form all that time.
It takes preferably 2-3 months, with these guys who have already done a few races this year probably two to four weeks. So a week is a little too little.
If they haven't secretly known about the invitation it's not possible for them to have peak form during the Giro. It helps them a bit that the race is three weeks long so their fitness will improve going to the last mountain stages but they won't still be at their peak. And they certainly won't be at their best in the opening stages.

So with or without dope all three of them won't be clearly better than the rest of the contenders. Of course they will surely make Di Luca and Simoni suffer in the mountains. But it is understandable that Contador with 90% fitness equals a 100% Di Luca since Di Luca doesn't have a chance in the TdF which we know Contador won. But we shall see if Contador is at 90%, or at 60/70% ? Though my money is on Klöden being the leader (and winner).
Astana also has the disadvantage of not having arranged transportation of blood to Italy for use before the hard mountain stages. I'm willing to bet Di Luca has all the blood he needs for the Giro...But this is only if we believe they dope

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