Riding at night: a strategy for survival?

ComandanteBanana

Hey guys, how about this little light for my Topeak rack?

http://www.topeak.com/products/detail/205

They also have this one...

http://www.topeak.com/products/detail/204

I'm reading in other forums though that some people ride with as many
lights as possible.

Isn't a basic strategy of survival to be seen, no matter what?

SMS

rms wrote:
>> Well, our dinosaurs (SUVs and motorboats) make us get smarter and get
>> nocturnal.
>
> Take heart: mammals emerged into the sunlight after a worldwide
> catastrophe. That catastrophe is occurring right now: slow in man-years
> but an eyeblink in geologic time.
>
> In any case, pay close attention to nighttime lighting. Both distance
> viewing and depth perception are greatly reduced with cheaper
> headlamp/bikelights. $2-300 for a quality high-wattage bikelight system I
> don't think would be out of line if you are serious about night-riding,
> especially on a fast roadbike.

I wouldn't base the quality on the price. You can spend $200-300 and end
up with low-power lights that aren't suitable for a lot of types of
night riding, and you can spend $60-100 and get something that works
very well.

The short version is a Cree 3W emitter flashlight and a high power LED
tail light that has some side pointing LEDs as well as rear pointing ones.

Just to nitpick, it's old-school to talk about "wattage."

DennisTheBald

On May 2, 12:47 pm, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Hey guys, how about this little light for my Topeak rack?
>
> http://www.topeak.com/products/detail/205
>
> They also have this one...
>
> http://www.topeak.com/products/detail/204
>
> I'm reading in other forums though that some people ride with as many
> lights as possible.
>
> Isn't a basic strategy of survival to be seen, no matter what?

Roger, too much ain't enough... light it up with as much battery power
as yer willing to carry. But don't stop there, get a dyno hub and
light it up some more. You got to be really bright 'cause motorists
ain't.

Jym Dyer

>>> Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It
>>> just distracts other drivers and makes them focus
>>> on the blinking.
>> So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK?
> They aren't ok.

=v= You've asserted this three times now. What's the basis?
Are there actual field studies indicating that blinking lights
are a hazard? Have they actually been correlated with greater
danger for cyclists?
<_Jym_>

_

On Fri, 02 May 2008 19:36:06 +0200, Jens Müller wrote:

> ComandanteBanana schrieb:
>> On May 1, 5:24 pm, Jens Müller <usenet-11-2...@tessarakt.de> wrote:
>>> ComandanteBanana schrieb:
>>>
>>>> Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
>>>> ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
>>>> blinking lights
>>> Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts other
>>> drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.
>>
>> So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK?
>
> They aren't ok.

Why not?

Jens Müller

Tom Keats schrieb:

> The real reason bicycle red rear lights blink
> is to conserve battery juice and avoid expense.

What batteries? Here bicycles need to have a dynamo (by law).

The only exception are racing bikes, "thanks" to Franz-Josef Strauß,
former Prime Minister of Bavaria.

Amy Blankenship

"Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nhgivf.053.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
> In article <1auhca968r2go$.15yl7mzrokpf2.dlg@40tude.net>,
> _ <jtayNOSPAMlor@hfDONTSENDMESPAMx.andara.com> writes:
>> On Fri, 02 May 2008 19:36:06 +0200, Jens Müller wrote:
>>
>>> ComandanteBanana schrieb:
>>>> On May 1, 5:24 pm, Jens Müller <usenet-11-2...@tessarakt.de> wrote:
>>>>> ComandanteBanana schrieb:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
>>>>>> ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
>>>>>> blinking lights
>>>>> Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts
>>>>> other
>>>>> drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.
>>>>
>>>> So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK?
>>>
>>> They aren't ok.
>>
>> Why not?
>
> There's a belief that it's more difficult for
> an observer to determine the speed and vector
> of a blinking, rather than steady light in the
> darkness of night. Perhaps blinking lights
> confuse our human, pathological tendency of
> Persistance Of Vision. What're those things
> called? Oh, yeah: "optical illusions." I
> suppose there's a wariness about blinking
> lights creating optical illusions.

Or epileptic seizures.

Tom Keats

In article <683vn2F2qnuprU1@mid.individual.net>,
Jens Müller <usenet-11-2007@tessarakt.de> writes:
> Tom Keats schrieb:
>
>> The real reason bicycle red rear lights blink
>> is to conserve battery juice and avoid expense.
>
> What batteries? Here bicycles need to have a dynamo (by law).

Here in British Columbia bicycles just need to have
lights at all, for riding at night.

I use dynamo lights. They work well for my purposes.
But I supplement them with battery lights which have
the option of flashing or steady beam.


cheers,
Tom


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

_

On Sat, 3 May 2008 13:05:11 -0700, Tom Keats wrote:

> In article <1auhca968r2go$.15yl7mzrokpf2.dlg@40tude.net>,
> _ <jtayNOSPAMlor@hfDONTSENDMESPAMx.andara.com> writes:
>> On Fri, 02 May 2008 19:36:06 +0200, Jens Müller wrote:
>>
>>> ComandanteBanana schrieb:
>>>> On May 1, 5:24 pm, Jens Müller <usenet-11-2...@tessarakt.de> wrote:
>>>>> ComandanteBanana schrieb:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And he
>>>>>> ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest with
>>>>>> blinking lights
>>>>> Args. Please don't use this blinking bullshits. It just distracts other
>>>>> drivers and makes them focus on the blinking.
>>>>
>>>> So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK?
>>>
>>> They aren't ok.
>>
>> Why not?
>
> There's a belief that it's more difficult for
> an observer to determine the speed and vector
> of a blinking, rather than steady light in the
> darkness of night. Perhaps blinking lights
> confuse our human, pathological tendency of
> Persistance Of Vision.

Well, more than a "belief" would be required for any effort to attempt to
persuade others to adopt the same conclusion.

Unless Muller is being merely religious.

Richard

On Fri, 02 May 2008 06:50:35 -0700, Pat wrote:

> On May 1, 5:49Â*pm, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On May 1, 5:24Â*pm, Jens Müller <usenet-11-2...@tessarakt.de> wrote:
>>
>> > ComandanteBanana schrieb:
>>
>> > > Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And
>> > > he ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest
>> > > with blinking lights

....SNIP...

>> I don't think any solid
>> light will be strong enough to be seen by drivers who simply aren't
>> looking for bikes at that time... if they are paying any attention at
>> all.
....SNIP...

>Anything you can do to increase your visible profile is helpful.


Perhaps Cold Cathode Wire is the answer to being seen.

See:
http://www.vibelights.com/elwibikit.html

Now that is being visible!!!
Of course it is a bit gaudy...

Rich B.

Tom Keats

In article <zd7ty9kauxwd$.1ugblsmw4ghta.dlg@40tude.net>,
_ <jtayNOSPAMlor@hfDONTSENDMESPAMx.andara.com> writes:

>>>>> So how is it the blinking rear lights are OK?
>>>>
>>>> They aren't ok.
>>>
>>> Why not?
>>
>> There's a belief that it's more difficult for
>> an observer to determine the speed and vector
>> of a blinking, rather than steady light in the
>> darkness of night. Perhaps blinking lights
>> confuse our human, pathological tendency of
>> Persistance Of Vision.
>
> Well, more than a "belief" would be required for any effort to attempt to
> persuade others to adopt the same conclusion.
>
> Unless Muller is being merely religious.

In my own empirical observations I've found my
above statement to be true. I, however, don't
mind that blinking lights may make drivers'
brains work harder. Whatever it takes to keep
'em on their toes & alert. There's been too much
emphasis on dumbing-down driving, instead of
smartening it up. When we dumb something down,
we end up with a bunch o' dummies doing it.

Some jurisdictions in various nations & countries
only allow blinking/flashing lights on emergency
vehicles. Fair enough.

It's been suggested that blinking/flashing lights
attract drunk drivers and cause them to crash into
the vehicle with the light source, but I think
that's just a canard.

I think cyclists should be allowed to have blue
tail lights, either flashing or steady.

Anybody who can't tell the difference between a
Police/Fire/Ambulance cherry & a bicycle light
is too stoopid to be on the street.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Helmut Springer

In rec.bicycles.misc _ <jtayNOSPAMlor@hfdontsendmespamx.andara.com> wrote:
>> There's a belief that it's more difficult for an observer to
>> determine the speed and vector of a blinking, rather than steady
>> light in the darkness of night. Perhaps blinking lights confuse
>> our human, pathological tendency of Persistance Of Vision.
>
> Well, more than a "belief" would be required for any effort to
> attempt to persuade others to adopt the same conclusion.

Simply check your preferred library on the topic of visual
cognition, especially in traffic‥


Cutting follow-up to rec.bicycles.misc,

--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer panta rhei

crabsallover

On May 4, 4:37 am, Richard <bluerandoneeSPAMME...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 02 May 2008 06:50:35 -0700, Pat wrote:
> > On May 1, 5:49 pm, ComandanteBanana <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On May 1, 5:24 pm, Jens Müller <usenet-11-2...@tessarakt.de> wrote:
>
> >> > ComandanteBanana schrieb:
>
> >> > > Anyway, now my next door neighbor wants to ride at midnight... And
> >> > > he ain't one of those crazy bums on a Huffy. He even bought a vest
> >> > > with blinking lights
>
> ...SNIP...
>
> >> I don't think any solid
> >> light will be strong enough to be seen by drivers who simply aren't
> >> looking for bikes at that time... if they are paying any attention at
> >> all.
>
> ...SNIP...
>
> >Anything you can do to increase your visible profile is helpful.
>
> Perhaps Cold Cathode Wire is the answer to being seen.
>
> See:http://www.vibelights.com/elwibikit.html
>
> Now that is being visible!!!
> Of course it is a bit gaudy...
>
> Rich B.

available in UK from BeSeenOnABike.com

http://tinyurl.com/69pbzf
and http://tinyurl.com/62o9lm