More carnage.

David Hansen

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:13:50 +0100 someone who may be Don Whybrow
<don@fwhybrow.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote this:-

><http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/news-feed/2008/04/30/screams-as-cyclist-crushed-by-truck-86908-20399564/>
>
>Apparently both cyclist and lorry turning left, though no mention of who
>got to the lights first.

I am waiting for further details to emerge before coming to a
conclusion on who, if anyone, is to blame in this particular
instance.

However, if the bit in the paper, "I heard him say to someone he
hadn't felt or seen a thing.", is correct then it confirms my
previous view that these things are too large to be driven around
Edinburgh in the large numbers I see them rumbling through the
streets.

I think that the operators of these lorries generally have a
cavalier attitude to safety.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:13:50 +0100 someone who may be Don Whybrow
<don@fwhybrow.wanadoo.co.uk> wrote this:-

>Another take on things in the Daily Record.

And I see that the Evening News have now published a name
<http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/latestnews/Police-name-cyclist-killed-in.4033552.jp>.

Some of the comments reveal how deranged the anti-cycling lobby are,
using someone's death to spout their usual drivel. However, the
first comment is worth repeating:

"Maybe time to start looking at prohibiting these vehicles from the
narrow streets of Edinburgh. That's four fatalities I can think of
in recent memory caused by tipper trucks. The two children in
Muirhouse, the Albanian lad in Gorgie and now this. In all cases the
driver appears to have been unable to see what was happening around
him. Not surprising as these things are designed for working in
quarries and landfill sites, not in close proximity to children,
pedestrians and cyclists."

I too thought of the children killed in Muirhouse when I heard of
this death. In that case the company had failed to employ a
banksman, though they were eventually let off by the courts for this
failure.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Pob

"David Hansen" <SENDdavidNOhSPAM@spidacom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:edff14d9a341jr9aa3utupdhkf73bvrd0u@4ax.com...
====================================================================
>
> At least the words used now - "A cyclist has died after a collision
> involving a dumper truck..." are neutral as to blame. I sent comment
> to the Beeb this morning about Version 1 of the story which said "A
> cyclist has been killed after colliding with a dumper truck....".
>

Who did you write to? They've used the construction implying blame to the
cyclist in the update where they name him this morning....

" He was turning left into Nicolson Street from West Richmond Street when he
collided with the truck."

pOB

Pob

Ah - found it.

Bit early to focus on hyperlinks.

pOB

JNugent

Pob wrote:
> "David Hansen" <SENDdavidNOhSPAM@spidacom.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:edff14d9a341jr9aa3utupdhkf73bvrd0u@4ax.com...
> ====================================================================
>> At least the words used now - "A cyclist has died after a collision
>> involving a dumper truck..." are neutral as to blame. I sent comment
>> to the Beeb this morning about Version 1 of the story which said "A
>> cyclist has been killed after colliding with a dumper truck....".
>>
>
> Who did you write to? They've used the construction implying blame to the
> cyclist in the update where they name him this morning....
>
> " He was turning left into Nicolson Street from West Richmond Street when he
> collided with the truck."

That doesn't sound like the classic lorry/bike collision where the lorry
is turning left and the bike (on the left) is going straight across.

Yesterday, I saw a rigid lorry (a brand new cement-mixer, as it happens)
with a prominent warning to undertaking cyclists on the rear nearside
mudflap, presumably right where a cyclist would see it. The first I've
seen (or noticed) Good idea, I thought.

PoB

"JNugent" <JN@NPPTG.com> wrote in message news:ON-| > " He was turning left
into Nicolson Street from West Richmond Street when he
| > collided with the truck."
|
| That doesn't sound like the classic lorry/bike collision where the lorry
| is turning left and the bike (on the left) is going straight across.

The police are still investigating, hence (partly) my concern about the
phrasing.

My friend only saw it when the bike was under the lorry and being scraped
along the ground - and has volunteered as a witness, in reply to a post
yesterday

The Scotsman/Evening News has a more neutral take:-

"The collision happened as the cyclist was turning left into Nicolson Street
from West Richmond Street."

which is as it should be.

pOB

robindouglasjohnson@googlemail.com

On 1 May, 09:15, JNugent <J...@NPPTG.com> wrote:
> Yesterday, I saw a rigid lorry (a brand new cement-mixer, as it happens)
> with a prominent warning to undertaking cyclists on the rear nearside
> mudflap, presumably right where a cyclist would see it. The first I've
> seen (or noticed) Good idea, I thought.

I've seen one of those. I had to get right up close to read it, mind.

Robin Johnson

David Hansen

On Thu, 1 May 2008 09:55:23 +0100 someone who may be "PoB"
<Pob@lackof.org> wrote this:-

>The police are still investigating, hence (partly) my concern about the
>phrasing.

The phrasing is important. By the time any report is completed the
mass media will have moved on to produce many more chip wrappings,
but the impression they gave that the cyclist was at fault will
remain. At the moment we don't know whether one, both or none of
those directly involved was at fault and the mass media should
reflect that in their choice of words.

>My friend only saw it when the bike was under the lorry and being scraped
>along the ground - and has volunteered as a witness, in reply to a post
>yesterday

Witnesses will need support too I imagine. Roadpeace do their best,
but the work should really be done by others who have the time and
are paid to do it. <http://www.roadpeace.org>



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Martin Dann

JNugent wrote:

> Yesterday, I saw a rigid lorry (a brand new cement-mixer, as it happens)
> with a prominent warning to undertaking cyclists on the rear nearside
> mudflap, presumably right where a cyclist would see it. The first I've
> seen (or noticed) Good idea, I thought.

I often see them on HGVs round here, but on the door at the back, not
the mudflap. I think they are an excellent idea.

Dave Larrington

In news:w_qSj.5648$b4.3614@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net,
Martin Dann <martin.dann@virgin.net> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
> JNugent wrote:
>
>> Yesterday, I saw a rigid lorry (a brand new cement-mixer, as it
>> happens) with a prominent warning to undertaking cyclists on the
>> rear nearside mudflap, presumably right where a cyclist would see
>> it. The first I've seen (or noticed) Good idea, I thought.
>
> I often see them on HGVs round here, but on the door at the back, not
> the mudflap. I think they are an excellent idea.

They've been pretty common on cement mixers for a good few years now.

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Apparently Guy has now got a Brompton. I'd never have guessed.

Marc

Dave Larrington wrote:
> In news:w_qSj.5648$b4.3614@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net,
> Martin Dann <martin.dann@virgin.net> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:
>> JNugent wrote:
>>
>>> Yesterday, I saw a rigid lorry (a brand new cement-mixer, as it
>>> happens) with a prominent warning to undertaking cyclists on the
>>> rear nearside mudflap, presumably right where a cyclist would see
>>> it. The first I've seen (or noticed) Good idea, I thought.
>> I often see them on HGVs round here, but on the door at the back, not
>> the mudflap. I think they are an excellent idea.
>
> They've been pretty common on cement mixers for a good few years now.
>
I wonder if there is a matching sign on the dashboard telling the driver
to look out for cyclists, or is only the victim that needs to be warned?

Just zis Guy, you know?

On Fri, 2 May 2008 09:47:52 +0100, "Dave Larrington"
<smert.spamionam@privacy.net> said in
<6802usF2p5v78U1@mid.individual.net>:

>They've been pretty common on cement mixers for a good few years now.

Whereas bendy buses have "this vehicle is 18 metres long" but
inexplicably miss off the important bit: "and it will start, stop
and turn without warning, regardless of whether you're halfway past
it or it's halfway past you, because it OWNS the road, so flee in
terror puny cyclist".

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound