Landis is racing the Cohutta 100 on Saturday

Crankyfeet

They farked him. The guy dopes. And UCI knew it. But there is no way he would have gone 12/1 on the T/E screen test at that stage knowing he had to win the stage and would be tested.

H-V couldn't let him win. He hated his guts. He's fighting not because he thinks he is clean... he's fighting because he knows they screwed him by tampering with the sample.

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thunder

are you being sarcastic?

do you know the variables. Could have been a simple misapplication on the testo-epi. done double testo, no epi. Usually they add epi, so to maintain the ratio. What happened if they put a lotion on, and accidentally put on testo twice.

Who knows what happen to his physiology after he bonked like that.

You wanna ask, why then, does it not happen more often, mistakes, misapplications?

Well, look at the sheer numbers, there are only 4 tested per stage, plus some random health checks for teams, with urine too.

The most common positive is actually testo, so they do screw up their application, more often than they have their exogenous EPO registering.

I have no questions and no concern re: conspiracy. They fucked up their doping. It was not the reason he won the stage. The reason he won was either his dynepo/epo, or his blood transfusions. And it may not have come on s16 night. His body may have had a poor reaction to being retransfused, and that is why he suffered on s16. Be strange to schedule a blood packet the night after s16, you miss out on one mtn stage without the blood advantage.

However, with transfusions, you have to take into account logistics and delivery. It might not have been possible, or too risky, and too far away from his helatologist.

I have always thought the secret to winning the tour was real estate.

You wait til the ASO releases the Tour route, and then go an rent 3 undercover apartments in the vicinity of stage 2, stage 7 and stage 13. You get a fridge, a haematologist, and a backup electric generator, 3x fridges and 3x generators, for each apartment.

You then tap the blood in the offseason, spin it, put it witht he preservatives. Yoy might need the dry ice freezers.

Done. Got the perfect doping model, no need for couriers, less facilitators.

Crankyfeet

I'm just speculating here (call it intuition) ... but it adds up to me. The UCI know they all dope. They (probably just H-V and one or two co-conspirators) can take 'em down whenever they want. With no feelings of guilt because they know they're all guilty. That's their big stick. They hold all these rider's careers in the palm of their hand. 12/1 is just rediculous.

Why do you think he is fighting this like he is? IMO he knows that his procedure and medicine and dope masking were fine. He knows something went haywire in the process or there was manipulation. He's as dirty as every other contender when it comes to doping. He knows it. But he also knows that he should have passed that screen test. That's why he is pissed off.

Just call it a hunch.... but it meshes in my mind with the guy's psychology.

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thunder

but it was not 12-1.

My layman understanding of it is, they need to take the three readings and get a mean. So the 12 was the high, and the others just over 5.

Crankyfeet

I thought the 5-1's were the other stage samples that they IRMS back-tested after the positive was confirmed. You might be right. Irrespective, I think he... and his doctor... are confident that he should have passed all the normal screen tests on that stage. I think that's what gave him the confidence to spend the $millions on digging up the custody/testing process.

The difference here is I am not a Floyd supporter who thinks he was clean. I am just trying to piece together a scenario that fits the behavior of the various players. If I was H-V (with H-V's personality)... 1. I would hate Floyd's guts after the Mercury fiasco... 2. I would hate Floyd to win the TdF.... and 3. I would have the mechanism to take down any cyclist who didn't play as I liked, knowing that it was not unfair in some respects b/c they are cheaters in any case.

And BTW - I'm not wedded to this viewpoint. If someone can punch a hole in it, please do. I don't want to hold onto any hypothesis that is just wrong.

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Bro Deal

I don't think so. You don't want to refrigerate blood for much more than forty days. If you take it in the off season then you need to freeze it. I don't know about your fridge, but mine doesn't have a setting for -80C.

Having multiple locations that need be taken care of is a lot riskier than using a courier to take the blood from one central storage location. The chance of a courier who looks like one of hundreds of thousands of other TdF fans getting caught is about nil.

It is also far safer to store the blood in a country with lax doping regulations.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

thunder

I qualified the dry ice or whatever is needed to get it to the temp.

You put it in an apartment where the entrance is private, simple.

C'dale Girl

I don't know if you're being serious or not (I was wondering the same thing), but that's an interesting theory you have there Cranky.
The only problem is that a lot of "Floyd Supporters" had and voiced similar thoughts along the way but were accused of being obsessive Floyd fans and/or doping apologists so the points you raise often fall on deaf ears.

thunder

how can you rig it?

I think it is well enough anon.

C'dale Girl

And he's seen the light, said no to the devil and and been able to kick the heroin habit that so many other's can't so he's againcompensating with food?

When I saw the pics I just assumed he and his wife recenty split and he was an emotional wreck who couldn't eat. If he's "fat" now, guess he's gotten over it pretty quickly, lol! But, what DIDN'T make sense to me was that he appeared to be somewhat of a stress eater because he put some lbs on during the hearing and the months leading up to it. So, you'd think he'd gain weight with the split. So, then I decided that perhaps he wasn't eating to save money or something. Maybe he's come into money since then (j/k).

C'dale Girl

Huh?

jimmypop

I like the rest of your post, but this part is bullshit. Floyd was a human being before the stage and after the stage, and this is the PR shit that he and his paid friends spread as FUD.

thunder

nope, I thought the application of topical creams is not an exact science. That was my point. A bonk, hydration IV, perhaps a blood transfusion, all add another layer or intangibles.

Most times Floyd was tested, many times he may have jumped off the bike, been a few kgs underweight in fluid loss, and added the topical testo, and the epi in proportion.

Each extra layer adds another intangible. I don't suggest it would miraculise in his system, and make a previous 1:1 ratio register as 12:1.

I was saying, it may have slowed minutely, and not passed thru his system quite as quickly. Most of the testo doping assumes that is will spike levels and be out of the system instantaneously.

More complications.

Not buying the defenders searching for any reasons. I am saying there are many reasons why it could genuinely have spiked a little from actual testo application, and Landis assumed he was fine like always.

whiteboytrash

Jezus christ do you know how hard it is to rent an apartment in france ! even for just a week !?? I'd guess you'd just pose as a fan...... the fridges of course are for the beer.....

I liked the Lance method... as he had the financial resources to do anything he transfused in the helicopter leaving stages back to his hotel...... just need a chopper pilot with a steady hand.... you don't want a forward dive as the needle is going in.....