'Inhumane' motorists drove OVER and around hit-and-run victim as helay dying in the street

Ian Smith

["Followup-To:" header set to uk.rec.cycling.]
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:56:54 +0100, ®i©ardo <here@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> Was it just motorists who passed on by? There were probably a few
> cyclists, as well, but that wouldn't be *news* would it?

On what basis do you say there were "probably a few cyclists"?

I have found most dual carriageways at 3 am to be completely devoid of
cyclists. I'm interested to find out why your experience evidently
differs so greatly. What Dual carriageway has significant numbers of
3am cyclists?

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

nully

Doug wrote:

> On 17 Apr, 09:13, " cupra" <NOcupra.sS...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Doug wrote:
> > > Doesn't this say it all about the mentality of the average car
> > > addict?
> >
> > > "Motorists who left a cyclist to die in the road after he was
> > > knocked over by a stolen car were described as inhuman yesterday.
> >
> > > Instead of stopping, they simply swerved around him, and
> > > detectives believe that one may even have driven over the badly
> > > injured Stephen Wills, breaking both his legs.
> >
> > Terrible
> >
> >
> >
> > > By the time a passer-by finally raised the alarm, Mr Wills, 55,
> > > who had been riding home from a dinner, was already dead.
> >
> > > The self-employed plasterer was cycling down a dual carriageway in
> > > Manchester at about 3.30am last Saturday when he was knocked over
> > > by a stolen VW Golf. The car was later found burnt-out nearby.
> >
> > > Witnesses said that instead of stopping to help Mr Wills as
> > > crucial minutes ticked by, other motorists steered around his
> > > body, and police believe one actually drove over him.
> >
> > So what were the witnesses doing in these crucial minutes, and who
> > were they?
>
> Shouldn't you be more concerned about the motorists who just drove on
> regardless?
>
> There seems to be a typical mindset among motorists that nothing
> should get in their way and they should get to where they are going as
> quickly as possible regardless.

For once, Duhg is right. As a motorist I confirm that I wouldn't
interrupt my journey to aid Duhg if I passed him laid by the side of
the road. Well, actually, I *might* just possibly detour a little to
run over the old bastids head.

--

JNugent

nully wrote:
> Doug wrote:
>
>> On 17 Apr, 09:13, " cupra" <NOcupra.sS...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Doug wrote:
>>>> Doesn't this say it all about the mentality of the average car
>>>> addict?
>>>> "Motorists who left a cyclist to die in the road after he was
>>>> knocked over by a stolen car were described as inhuman yesterday.
>>>> Instead of stopping, they simply swerved around him, and
>>>> detectives believe that one may even have driven over the badly
>>>> injured Stephen Wills, breaking both his legs.
>>> Terrible
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> By the time a passer-by finally raised the alarm, Mr Wills, 55,
>>>> who had been riding home from a dinner, was already dead.
>>>> The self-employed plasterer was cycling down a dual carriageway in
>>>> Manchester at about 3.30am last Saturday when he was knocked over
>>>> by a stolen VW Golf. The car was later found burnt-out nearby.
>>>> Witnesses said that instead of stopping to help Mr Wills as
>>>> crucial minutes ticked by, other motorists steered around his
>>>> body, and police believe one actually drove over him.
>>> So what were the witnesses doing in these crucial minutes, and who
>>> were they?
>> Shouldn't you be more concerned about the motorists who just drove on
>> regardless?
>>
>> There seems to be a typical mindset among motorists that nothing
>> should get in their way and they should get to where they are going as
>> quickly as possible regardless.
>
> For once, Duhg is right. As a motorist I confirm that I wouldn't
> interrupt my journey to aid Duhg if I passed him laid by the side of
> the road. Well, actually, I *might* just possibly detour a little to
> run over the old bastids head.

Well, I don't know about that, but in all the circumstances, at 3am on a
Manchester main route with the visible aftermath of an accident and
(what must have been) several other vehicles stopped already, I think
I'd rapidly tend to the view that any problems were already being
addressed and that more problems may well be caused - especially for me
- if I were silly enough to stop. Not that I would be able to anything
more than use a phone to call for help in any event.

JNugent

_ wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 10:39:01 +0100, ®i©ardo wrote:
>
>> Mortimer wrote:
>>> " cupra" <NOcupra.sSPAM@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:66of4eF2kfig0U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> Doug wrote:
>>>>> Doesn't this say it all about the mentality of the average car addict?
>>>>>
>>>>> "Motorists who left a cyclist to die in the road after he was knocked
>>>>> over by a stolen car were described as inhuman yesterday.
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of stopping, they simply swerved around him, and detectives
>>>>> believe that one may even have driven over the badly injured Stephen
>>>>> Wills, breaking both his legs.
>>>> Terrible
>>>>
>>>>> By the time a passer-by finally raised the alarm, Mr Wills, 55, who
>>>>> had been riding home from a dinner, was already dead.
>>>>>
>>>>> The self-employed plasterer was cycling down a dual carriageway in
>>>>> Manchester at about 3.30am last Saturday when he was knocked over by a
>>>>> stolen VW Golf. The car was later found burnt-out nearby.
>>>>>
>>>>> Witnesses said that instead of stopping to help Mr Wills as crucial
>>>>> minutes ticked by, other motorists steered around his body, and police
>>>>> believe one actually drove over him.
>>>> So what were the witnesses doing in these crucial minutes, and who were
>>>> they?
>>> In case anyone thinks that this is apparent lack off concern is a modern
>>> phenomenon, I remember reading an article in the magazine Drive in the 1970s
>>> in which they staged an "accident" with an actor lying beside the road as if
>>> he had been knocked down, to see how many people would stop to help. They
>>> were horrified at how few people did, though some slowed down for a closer
>>> look. Of course in those days without mobile phones, it was necessary to
>>> drive off in search of a phone box if you wanted to call an ambulance - and
>>> that is what some of the supposedly uncaring drivers may have done. Nowadays
>>> you can call for help without even leaving your car.
>>>
>>>
>> The trouble is that you could be fined for doing so!
>
> Could be, yes - but one could, of course, stop driving.

Not completely necessary; there's an exemption in the law for calling
emergency services.

®i©ardo

Ian Smith wrote:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to uk.rec.cycling.]
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:56:54 +0100, ®i©ardo <here@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> Was it just motorists who passed on by? There were probably a few
>> cyclists, as well, but that wouldn't be *news* would it?
>
> On what basis do you say there were "probably a few cyclists"?
>
> I have found most dual carriageways at 3 am to be completely devoid of
> cyclists. I'm interested to find out why your experience evidently
> differs so greatly. What Dual carriageway has significant numbers of
> 3am cyclists?
>
> regards, Ian SMith

Well, as it seems to have been such a busy road with lots of traffic,
lots of witnesses, it seems fairly safe to assume that most modes of
transport passed by...

I frequently drive late at night/early morning and whilst we have few
dual carriageways I do see a fair number of cyclists.

--
Moving things in still pictures!

Tony Dragon

Ian Smith wrote:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to uk.rec.cycling.]
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:56:54 +0100, ®i©ardo <here@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> Was it just motorists who passed on by? There were probably a few
>> cyclists, as well, but that wouldn't be *news* would it?
>
> On what basis do you say there were "probably a few cyclists"?
>
> I have found most dual carriageways at 3 am to be completely devoid of
> cyclists. I'm interested to find out why your experience evidently
> differs so greatly. What Dual carriageway has significant numbers of
> 3am cyclists?
>
> regards, Ian SMith

Well this one was not devoid of cyclists.

--
Tony the Dragon

Adrian

Ian Smith (Ian Smith <ian@astounding.org.uk>) gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

>> Was it just motorists who passed on by? There were probably a few
>> cyclists, as well, but that wouldn't be *news* would it?

> On what basis do you say there were "probably a few cyclists"?
>
> I have found most dual carriageways at 3 am to be completely devoid of
> cyclists. I'm interested to find out why your experience evidently
> differs so greatly. What Dual carriageway has significant numbers of
> 3am cyclists?

This particular road wasn't "completely devoid" of cyclists, was it?
There was _at least_ one...

Conor

In article <b10d7558-4b00-47e7-a2b5-f0ff0eb21b83
@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Doug says...

> He lived by himself in the Moss Side area of Manchester.

Pretty much says it all. You may not know about Moss Side, Doug, but
it's one of those areas where you don't get involved because there's a
high probability of being knifed or shot.

--
Conor

I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't
looking good either. - Scott Adams

Abo

Doug wrote:
> Doesn't this say it all about the mentality of the average car addict?
>
> "Motorists who left a cyclist to die in the road after he was knocked
> over by a stolen car were described as inhuman yesterday.
>
> Instead of stopping, they simply swerved around him, and detectives
> believe that one may even have driven over the badly injured Stephen
> Wills, breaking both his legs.
>
> By the time a passer-by finally raised the alarm, Mr Wills, 55, who
> had been riding home from a dinner, was already dead.
>
> The self-employed plasterer was cycling down a dual carriageway in
> Manchester at about 3.30am last Saturday when he was knocked over by a
> stolen VW Golf. The car was later found burnt-out nearby.
>
> Witnesses said that instead of stopping to help Mr Wills as crucial
> minutes ticked by, other motorists steered around his body

Maybe they were worried it was a staged hijack attempt, as shown in
countless movies and TV programmes?

--
Abo

Nuxx Bar

On Apr 17, 7:41*am, Doug <jag...@riseup.net> wrote:
> Doesn't this say it all about the mentality of the average car addict?
>
> "Motorists who left a cyclist to die in the road after he was knocked
> over by a stolen car were described as inhuman yesterday.
>
> Instead of stopping, they simply swerved around him, and detectives
> believe that one may even have driven over the badly injured Stephen
> Wills, breaking both his legs.
>
> By the time a passer-by finally raised the alarm, Mr Wills, 55, who
> had been riding home from a dinner, was already dead.
>
> The self-employed plasterer was cycling down a dual carriageway in
> Manchester at about 3.30am last Saturday when he was knocked over by a
> stolen VW Golf. The car was later found burnt-out nearby.
>
> Witnesses said that instead of stopping to help Mr Wills as crucial
> minutes ticked by, other motorists steered around his body, and police
> believe one actually drove over him.
>
> "It's a pretty sad state set of affairs when people refuse to stop to
> help a fellow human who is clearly in dire need of help," said a
> police source.
>
> "Behaviour like this seems simply inhuman, and it's hard to believe
> that drivers refused to stop and help. What's worse is that one driver
> may have even driven over Stephen's legs before heading off.
>
> "We can only assume in some cases it was more important to those
> drivers that they got home instead of stopping to help a dying man."
>
> When paramedics arrived it was too late and Mr Wills was pronounced
> dead at the scene, apparently as a result of head injuries sustained
> in the initial collision.
>
> He lived by himself in the Moss Side area of Manchester.
>
> He is thought to have had no children of his own, but was regarded as
> a "father figure" by the two sons of a divorcee with whom he had been
> in a relationship..."
>
> More:
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ws.html?in_arti...
>
> --
> World Carfree Networkhttp://www.worldcarfree.net/
> Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.

At last, someone who admits to hating cars.

What those people did (or didn't do) was absolutely terrible, but I
would have stopped, as would any Safe Speed member that I've ever seen
post. Tarring all motorists with the same brush is just as bad as
doing so with cyclists.

Mortimer

"Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message
news:fu84ds$bmv$1@news.albasani.net...
> Doug wrote:
>> Doesn't this say it all about the mentality of the average car addict?
>>
>> "Motorists who left a cyclist to die in the road after he was knocked
>> over by a stolen car were described as inhuman yesterday.
>>
>> Instead of stopping, they simply swerved around him, and detectives
>> believe that one may even have driven over the badly injured Stephen
>> Wills, breaking both his legs.
>>
>> By the time a passer-by finally raised the alarm, Mr Wills, 55, who
>> had been riding home from a dinner, was already dead.
>>
>> The self-employed plasterer was cycling down a dual carriageway in
>> Manchester at about 3.30am last Saturday when he was knocked over by a
>> stolen VW Golf. The car was later found burnt-out nearby.
>>
>> Witnesses said that instead of stopping to help Mr Wills as crucial
>> minutes ticked by, other motorists steered around his body
>
> Maybe they were worried it was a staged hijack attempt, as shown in
> countless movies and TV programmes?

Quite so. If he was on his own and no-one else was looking after him, I'd
probably stop if it was daylight in a good area. At night or if there were
other people already with him (both of which were the case here) I might
pause and ask whether anyone needed me to phone for an ambulance or I might
drive on and phone for one when I was away from the scene.

Steve Firth

Doug <jagmad@riseup.net> wrote:

>
> Shouldn't you be more concerned about the motorists who just drove on
> regardless?

Have you ever lived in Moss Side Duhg? Have you even visited Moss Side
and/or Hulme? Even as long ago as 1983 I would not stop my car there if
I saw someone lying in the gutter. The probability is that it would be a
decoy and as soon as you stop to offer aid you will be robbed at knife
or gunpoint and the thieves will take your keys and steal the car.

Even the police do not go alone on the streets and they all wear body
armour. Mostly they don't get out of the car, they don't go into some
areas at all.

Presumably you don't remember Jessie James, murdered in Moss Side while
riding his bicycle (he was shot three times with a semi-automatic
pistol).

Ernest Gifford, shot dead 4/6/2006
Tyrone Gilbert, shot in drive-by shooting August 2007, two others shot
slightly later that day.


<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/mai...7/08/11/sm_moss
side11.xml>

"The gunmen have adopted a new tactic: stealing or hijacking (often at
gunpoint) cars, using them in drive-by shootings and then abandoning
them, all within minutes."

http://www.citylife2000.co.uk/Moss%...%20district.htm

"Police will not enter some areas within the district after night-fall,
and during daylight they enter in packs."

"Mugging, rapes and murders are common in Moss-Side"

Just zis Guy, you know?

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Nuxx Bar
<derderderder619@hotmail.com> said in
<8c94d3cf-fca9-451d-a93c-ebde7974b75e@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>:

>At last, someone who admits to hating cars.

You fail it (it being primary-school level literacy). The word
"hate" was not mentioned in the post, therefore your statement is
simply false. As usual.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

Dead Paul

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:20:37 +0100, Abo wrote:

> Doug wrote:
>> Doesn't this say it all about the mentality of the average car addict?
>>
>> "Motorists who left a cyclist to die in the road after he was knocked
>> over by a stolen car were described as inhuman yesterday.
>>
>> Instead of stopping, they simply swerved around him, and detectives
>> believe that one may even have driven over the badly injured Stephen
>> Wills, breaking both his legs.
>>
>> By the time a passer-by finally raised the alarm, Mr Wills, 55, who had
>> been riding home from a dinner, was already dead.
>>
>> The self-employed plasterer was cycling down a dual carriageway in
>> Manchester at about 3.30am last Saturday when he was knocked over by a
>> stolen VW Golf. The car was later found burnt-out nearby.
>>
>> Witnesses said that instead of stopping to help Mr Wills as crucial
>> minutes ticked by, other motorists steered around his body
>
> Maybe they were worried it was a staged hijack attempt, as shown in
> countless movies and TV programmes?

Yeah sure, lying in the middle of the carriageway where if he were a
hijacker he could easily have been instantly killed - the victim was run
over - I don't think so. Use your noddle, it was gone 3am, they were
probably over the limit (alcohol) returning home from a club or wherever.

--
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