Waiting in traffic lines.

Matt O'Toole

On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:04:15 +0000, Martin Dann wrote:

> One thing I have noticed in the last couple of months, is how my cycling
> speed affects how other road users treat me. The faster I go, the more I
> seem to be cut up, or receive abuse.
> In mid-Feb it was taking me just over an hour to commute to work, and now
> I am taking 40-45 minutes (still not fast enough). In Feb, I had hardly
> any trouble from motorists.
>
> However this could be due to road positioning, the faster I go, the
> further from the kerb I ride.

As you go faster, especially if you're making better time in traffic, it
frustrates other drivers so they'll try to compete with you -- as they
will when you're driving a car faster than they are. But it really gets
their goat to be "beaten" by a bicycle.

Also, if you're riding fast, they may assume you're trying to "beat" them,
and will return the gesture in-kind.

Their problem, not yours. Imagine going through life like that.

Just don't engage, or when you feel you've gotten their (negative)
attention, take active steps to disengage -- let them "beat" you, and
go on their miserable way.

Matt O.

Tom Keats

In article <pan.2008.04.18.18.26.12.895723@letterboxes.org>,
Matt O'Toole <mattotoole@letterboxes.org> writes:

> Also, if you're riding fast, they may assume you're trying to "beat" them,
> and will return the gesture in-kind.
>
> Their problem, not yours. Imagine going through life like that.

I think that's pretty much how it is. In my observations,
people are competitive and covetous by nature. Maybe
there's some kind of connection between crime and sport
in that regard? Anyway, if someone is seen to have some
/thing/ -- even the point in space where he or she is
standing/walking/riding/driving at the moment -- other
people will want it. Nevertheless there's a certain
advantage in the predictable behaviours of us humanoids
and hominids.

We bicycle riders /do/ develop a sense of what's coming,
when we see the body English of cars ahead of us. Like
those times when y'just know that guy coming in off the
sidestreet is gonna so-oh-obediently stop at the stop line,
and then just go without looking, right when you'd be
in his path. I can often even predict those mind-changers
who signal a right turn, let me position myself behind
them accordingly, and then switch to their left turn
signal and simultaneously commence turning left when
they think I'd be alongside 'em[*]. I think anybody
who rides among car traffic develops this sense. It's
nothing special or "gifted"; it's just too intangible
to properly articulate in language. In short, I guess
I'm just saying bike riders are /not/ stupid. We all
know that we can't afford to be stupid. We're not that
stupid. Neither, as you well know, do we suicidally barge
through red lights and into busy cross-traffic, as we're so
often accused of doing.

I know I'm not saying anything new to you or to any other
bicycle rider. I'm just trying to acknowledge that intangible
understanding by which we survive our fellow traffic.

> Just don't engage, or when you feel you've gotten their (negative)
> attention, take active steps to disengage -- let them "beat" you, and
> go on their miserable way.

That hearkens to my own personal Cycling Prime Directive:
keep the impatient drivers ahead of me, and the indecisive
drivers behind me. By their fruits shall ye know them.


cheers, & I'm rather partial to grapefruit, myself,
Tom
[*] I bet Eric Sande knows exactly of what I speak.

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Dane Buson

In rec.bicycles.misc Martin Dann <martin.dann@virgin.net> wrote:
>
> GoogleUser Marz wrote:
>> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is not
>> really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter ( a
>> very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait in line
>> with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I did ride to
>> work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my question is, do
>> other folks wait in line or do you ride through stationary traffic?
>
> If I approach most junctions, and there is just on car waiting before I
> get there, I will wait behind. (The exception is red lights on hills).
> If there is a lorry/bus in front, I probably won't bother passing that.
> If there is a long queue, and I know I won't get through the next green
> phase if I wait, then I filter.

This is pretty much how I operate. On most stretches of my commute, I'd
rather be in the traffic queue rather than off to the side. As long as
I don't miss the light, I don't care if I'm in the very front. In fact,
if I can get behind someone in a van or DHL or UPS truck, I can get an
excellent draft and zip along with everyone else at traffic speed on
most of the stretches.

--
Dane Buson - sigdane@unixbigots.org
If you can read this, you're in range of the demat gun

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Dane Buson wrote:

>>> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is
>>> not really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter
>>> (a very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait
>>> in line with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I
>>> did ride to work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my
>>> question is, do other folks wait in line or do you ride through
>>> stationary traffic?

>> If I approach most junctions, and there is just on car waiting
>> before I get there, I will wait behind. (The exception is red
>> lights on hills). If there is a lorry/bus in front, I probably
>> won't bother passing that. If there is a long queue, and I know I
>> won't get through the next green phase if I wait, then I filter.

> This is pretty much how I operate. On most stretches of my commute,
> I'd rather be in the traffic queue rather than off to the side. As
> long as I don't miss the light, I don't care if I'm in the very
> front. In fact, if I can get behind someone in a van or DHL or UPS
> truck, I can get an excellent draft and zip along with everyone else
> at traffic speed on most of the stretches.

I think it depends on the road configuration and traffic light phases.
On my commute, several expressways with bicycle lanes cross and have
double left turn lanes with many left turning cars. For these
intersections, I wait in the bicycle lane and when the left turn phase
occurs, ride diagonally between opposing left turn flow, ending the
crossing in the other expressway bike lane.

I find that this does not impede cars (that can accelerate faster than
I) and don't ride in the midst of those cars. These are 4-lane or
wider divided roads, some with median separators. The more lanes the
better but don't ride in the debris pile dead zone in the center of
the intersection, but watch for tools and money that seem to prefer
that location. Stopping there for a pickup is not hazardous.

As for traffic jams, I ride in the bicycle lane and it isn't jammed.
On our main street, I ride down the center stripe to avoid getting
doored or right-turned by slow or stalled traffic.

Jobst Brandt

Zoot Katz

On 12 May 2008 21:06:00 GMT, jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org wrote:

>Dane Buson wrote:
>
>>>> When driving to work the other day (sorry, yes driving, cycling is
>>>> not really an option right now) I noticed the one cycling commuter
>>>> (a very rare sight in Houston) and was surprised to see him wait
>>>> in line with traffic at the lights. For me, one of the reasons I
>>>> did ride to work is to avoid getting stuck in traffic lines and my
>>>> question is, do other folks wait in line or do you ride through
>>>> stationary traffic?
>
>>> If I approach most junctions, and there is just on car waiting
>>> before I get there, I will wait behind. (The exception is red
>>> lights on hills). If there is a lorry/bus in front, I probably
>>> won't bother passing that. If there is a long queue, and I know I
>>> won't get through the next green phase if I wait, then I filter.
>
>> This is pretty much how I operate. On most stretches of my commute,
>> I'd rather be in the traffic queue rather than off to the side. As
>> long as I don't miss the light, I don't care if I'm in the very
>> front. In fact, if I can get behind someone in a van or DHL or UPS
>> truck, I can get an excellent draft and zip along with everyone else
>> at traffic speed on most of the stretches.
>
>I think it depends on the road configuration and traffic light phases.
>On my commute, several expressways with bicycle lanes cross and have
>double left turn lanes with many left turning cars. For these
>intersections, I wait in the bicycle lane and when the left turn phase
>occurs, ride diagonally between opposing left turn flow, ending the
>crossing in the other expressway bike lane.
>
>I find that this does not impede cars (that can accelerate faster than
>I) and don't ride in the midst of those cars. These are 4-lane or
>wider divided roads, some with median separators. The more lanes the
>better but don't ride in the debris pile dead zone in the center of
>the intersection, but watch for tools and money that seem to prefer
>that location. Stopping there for a pickup is not hazardous.
>
>As for traffic jams, I ride in the bicycle lane and it isn't jammed.
>On our main street, I ride down the center stripe to avoid getting
>doored or right-turned by slow or stalled traffic.
>
>Jobst Brandt

We who have survived for years largely unscathed develop a sense of
flow that fits the infrastructure and social norms of our particular
area. "Vehicular Cycling" and the scofflaw zen gonzo riding styles
meld in that flow.

To expect anything but a rolling-stop without a stern application of
"the eye" is the norm around here. Stoping for a right-turn-on-red
will too often get you tail ended, leaving serious injury claims and
flattened bicycle tires in the wake.

I won't hang my butt out in a left turn lane for more than one light
sequence except in situations requiring hazardous moves to avoid it.
Mostly it's a matter of timing, sight lines and grade. Knowing the
route helps. Sometimes a "square-turn" is going to be quicker.

My line is preferably on the right front quarter panel, signalling
left across the windshield, of the first car in the line-up. Second
choice is in that driver's blind spot. Hitting a green arrow on the
fly across four lanes of slowing and stopped through-traffic to merge
with the turning traffic is beautiful but takes confidence and luck.

People blathering about the optics of how you get there are wasting
their time.
--
zk