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Question for the Ex.Phys Boffin(s) (AWC, Power-Duration)

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Old 25-04.-2008, 09:59 AM   #31
amartinez
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Default Re: Question for the Ex.Phys Boffin(s) (AWC, Power-Duration)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_B
I think that you have to be careful about what your intentions are and data you apply to the curve. The original idea (or at least what the guys who wrote about horse racing and human running tried to do) was to predict times at various distances. Alex applied his MMP data to make a curve for us here. As a prediction of performance, that might not work too well. If I started an effort at my 5-minute best power and tried to hold it for as long as possible, I doubt that I would be able to do my best power at succeeding durations. OTOH, if you are simply using the MMP data to derive "EI" (as defined above) as an index to track and not using it as a predictor of performance, that's something else.

Do horses understand proper pacing? Maybe we should ask one.

Well, similar pacing consideration also aplies to any other TT events, if you run your 10k race at your best 1500m pace are in a similar problem...

I don't known much about horse racing but, in our country, they are run with a rider (Jockey)

Talking more seriously, for prediction purposes would be interesting to try other cases to see the goodness of fit and if the slope remains reasonably constant when we extend the duration.
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Old 25-04.-2008, 10:21 AM   #32
Alex Simmons
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Default Re: Question for the Ex.Phys Boffin(s) (AWC, Power-Duration)

OK, for some fun, here are two more charts. This time I have compared Normalised Power and Average Mean Maximal Powers for the durations 5 minutes to 3.75hrs.

One for each of the two years of data I posted earlier.

2006:


2007:
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Old 25-04.-2008, 11:50 AM   #33
acoggan
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Default Re: Question for the Ex.Phys Boffin(s) (AWC, Power-Duration)

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Originally Posted by Steve_B
Which would mean boatloads of L1/L2, i.e., LSD rides for long durations?


I was actually thinking the opposite: heavy doses of level 5 and 6 training would strongly stimulate glycogen "supercompensation", but would likely result in a steepening, rather than a flattening, of the power-duration relationship. Ergo, it is a mistake to equate flattening of the power-duration curve with the "filling" of anything.
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Old 25-04.-2008, 12:18 PM   #34
Steve_B
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Default Re: Question for the Ex.Phys Boffin(s) (AWC, Power-Duration)

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Originally Posted by doctorSpoc
i blow up doing isopower intervals at ave powers less than 'ramped' ave power for ramped intervals and the RPE is far greater for the isopower intervals than for the 'ramped'
I can understand and I've done this myself riding the trainer, though not to the same degree of undershoot/overshoot. I find it makes it easier mentally sometimes. Outdoors, I find that I often "perk up" and ride harder on the last interval, basically because I know that I am almost done, as opposed to having to slog through 3 more or whatever. There might be a similar motivational factor at work.
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Old 25-04.-2008, 09:18 PM   #35
rmur17
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Default Re: Question for the Ex.Phys Boffin(s) (AWC, Power-Duration)

Quote:
Originally Posted by acoggan
I was actually thinking the opposite: heavy doses of level 5 and 6 training would strongly stimulate glycogen "supercompensation", but would likely result in a steepening, rather than a flattening, of the power-duration relationship. Ergo, it is a mistake to equate flattening of the power-duration curve with the "filling" of anything.

well filling one's stomach after a nice long ride comes to mind .
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Old 25-04.-2008, 10:18 PM   #36
Steve_B
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Default Re: Question for the Ex.Phys Boffin(s) (AWC, Power-Duration)

Quote:
Originally Posted by acoggan
I was actually thinking the opposite: heavy doses of level 5 and 6 training would strongly stimulate glycogen "supercompensation", but would likely result in a steepening, rather than a flattening, of the power-duration relationship. Ergo, it is a mistake to equate flattening of the power-duration curve with the "filling" of anything.
OK on the filling. I was was simply mimicking Kirk Willett as an attempt at humor.

We're getting quite a bit off topic here (but since when has that ever stopped us?) but since I'm a curious type, I have a question.

This explains the definition of glycogen supercompensation and a "conventional" way of achieving it. So what you are discussing above doing the depletion phase of the glycogen supercompensation cycle with L5/L6 training, which would also have the effect of raising "the left", the part of the curve at the shorter durations. However are you saying that supercompensation by itself has an effect upon the slope of the line?

Thanks.

Last edited by Steve_B : 25-04.-2008 at 10:56 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 26-04.-2008, 09:23 AM   #37
amartinez
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Default Re: Question for the Ex.Phys Boffin(s) (AWC, Power-Duration)

This graph is with my own data (last 9 months), I'm an AG triathlete and my FT was around 240watts in this period, instead of log-log I've used a more familiar linear graph with duration in Hours (from 5' to 6hr), the exponent of the curve is the "endurance index" (slope in log-log graph) and coefficient is (around) 1h (avg or norm) power:



Just in case anyone want to play with his own data I've attached the excel file (zipped).
Attached Files
File Type: zip EnduranceEquation.zip (8.7 KB, 1 views)
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