EPO? Yes of no?

Originally Posted by TheDarkLord

According to the rules, they are cheating. Just because one is clever enough to not get caught does not mean that s/he is not cheating.

Originally Posted by Yojimbo_

What's the difference between taking PEDs, and using some advanced technology that no-one else has access to (like aero-bars when they first came out)?

I can't see one. Both are attempts to give you an unfair advantage over other riders.

Originally Posted by jhuskey

Public knowledge!

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider

Yep, mom and dad won't care if their son or daughter wants aero bars because their favorite rider is using a certain piece of equipment, but when kids are able to locate a dealer or internet source because news on the street is you have to use PED's they will blindly use PED's without a doctor or knowledge on how to use.

I have to admit that is how I got started way back when. My first injection I had no clue other than put some in a syringe and try not to hit a nerve or artery. My first number of years half of what I used wasn't even real and probably had contaminants. Later we were stupid enough to create certain types of anabolics on the kitchen stove. Some of those guys ended up with abssesses that had to be surgically opened and cleaned. I ended up becoming a dealer so that I could get closer to the source so that everything I used was legit and not fake. It just took me deeper into the badlands.

By the way I post these things if only to do one thing and that is bring clarity that using PED's is not just cheating. There are a lot of risks involved and a lot of personal damage and shame that will go along with it. None of these people that are eventually exposed like Landis, Marion Jones, Conseco and so on are having a feel good moment right now.

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider

Yep, mom and dad won't care if their son or daughter wants aero bars because their favorite rider is using a certain piece of equipment, but when kids are able to locate a dealer or internet source because news on the street is you have to use PED's they will blindly use PED's without a doctor or knowledge on how to use.

I have to admit that is how I got started way back when. My first injection I had no clue other than put some in a syringe and try not to hit a nerve or artery. My first number of years half of what I used wasn't even real and probably had contaminants. Later we were stupid enough to create certain types of anabolics on the kitchen stove. Some of those guys ended up with abssesses that had to be surgically opened and cleaned. I ended up becoming a dealer so that I could get closer to the source so that everything I used was legit and not fake. It just took me deeper into the badlands.

By the way I post these things if only to do one thing and that is bring clarity that using PED's is not just cheating. There are a lot of risks involved and a lot of personal damage and shame that will go along with it. None of these people that are eventually exposed like Landis, Marion Jones, Conseco and so on are having a feel good moment right now.

Originally Posted by Yojimbo_

That's not my point.

My point is why is it ok to get an advantage using technology that is not available to everyone, but it is not ok to get an advantage using PEDs?

Both are cheating imo, since it is not solely your body, your training, and your desire that helps you win.

Originally Posted by TheDarkLord

Are there any documented cases of where someone got an unfair advantage using technology? Don't see such a thing happening at least in the current environment.

Originally Posted by Peter@vecchios

Low pressure chamber, sleeping capsule. Used by Lance. Artificial way to increase red blood cells.

Originally Posted by jhuskey

As far bike equipment, bikes and equipment are examined and deemed ok or not. They are out there for the whole world to see. Using covert methods for physical enhancement is a whole other world.
Equipment technology is constantly evolving. I am not saying there have not been instances of cheating using illegal equipment, but it is difficult and rare that someone gets away with it.

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider

It would also seem that an equipment or clothing advantage (like the dimpled swimsuit controversy ) may give a slight percentage of advantage, but to be a larger advantage it would more likely be a very radical difference in equipment one would think.


The difference in using PED's is typically a 10% advantage over natural efforts among similar genetic capabilities. Me taking all the PED's that I could and still live will not help me against a pro cyclists because my genetics are not prime for cycling. So to be clear the comparison is among similar genetic capabilities. 10% +/- is a huge advantage and the other huge advantage in human physiology is a faster recovery time. One could have a miserable day one day and drop the whole field the next day if that sounds familiar. Equipment and clothing does not have that capability without it being something really radical and even then I would be skeptical of the discussion.