Training or Doping - UK track cycling

thunder

think evidence is out whether the effects are linear, or you have to be close to, or exhausting, your current O2 supply.

So, if you are no where near a hypothetical aerobic threshold, because your localised muscles do not have the strength endurance, ie, legs, or perhaps chest if a swimmer, back if a rower, then you will not actually benefit at all from EPO.

May be, may be a slight recovery benefit. Or not.

Anticyclone

Some questions:

How does the effort put into track racing in the UK compare with that of other countries?
Leading on from that - if Wiggins lets say had grown up on the continent then what sort of a rider would he be? As he would have grown up into more of a road-racing background then maybe he would be a leading rider for breakaways/even GTs? If so then it is difficult to compare his ability.

What sort of scrutiny does the National lottery put on where its money goes? I would have thought they would be a bit careful as they wouldnt want bad publicity (although i suppose all publicity is good publicity).

Although not questions i would also have thought -

the british riders would be a bit more motivated for these championships than other riders. Other countries' riders are going to want to win as well of course but the home venue is going to have an effect, especially in Olympic year when the other countries' preparations may be based more on that than the world champs (which come around every year).

Women's sport has fewer numbers going in and so is less competitive than many others. Also, i would have thought that, at least in some countries, the potential financial rewards of athletics would outweigh those of cycling in the women's arena so women would be more likely to go for those if showing an athletic promise at an early age.

As others have mentioned, Britain is a relatively small country given its population (it is one of the most densely populated countries in europe despite the poorly populated upland areas of Scotland, Wales and northern England). This must make organisation easier (poor transport notwithstanding).

NJK

One of the reasons that England looked stronger when they won the world cup in Aus was they continued on a strength training programme all the way through the tournament which i believe is about a month. Other nations stopped or tapered, a big mistake.

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plectrum

Also many seem to forget that we were damn lucky in the World Cup and actually underpeformed throughout the competition and won the final with a piece of brilliance in the dying seconds.

Anticyclone

It was a good team that reached their peak around the right time. A bit similar in some ways to the Ashes team of 2005 (don't mention boiled sweets though!)

Crankyfeet

FINAL MEDAL TABLE

1 Great Britain (9 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze)
2 Netherlands (2 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze)
3 Belarus (2 gold, 0 silver, 1 bronze)
4 France (1 gold, 3 silver, 3 bronze)
5 USA (1 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze)
6 Cuba (1 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze)
7 New Zealand (1 gold, 0 silver, 0 bronze)
8 Denmark (0 gold, 2 silver, 1 bronze)
9 Lithuania (0 gold, 2 silver, 0 bronze)
10 Germany (0 gold, 1 silver, 4 bronze)
11 Australia (0 gold, 1 silver, 3 bronze)
12 China (0 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze)
= Ukraine (0 gold, 1 silver, 0 bronze)
14 Russia (0 gold, 0 silver, 1 bronze)
= Italy (0 gold, 0 silver, 1 bronze)
= Greece (0 gold, 0 silver, 1 bronze)

thunder

more than 50% of gold.

rest our case

Crankyfeet

No...they've just found a new way of training that has not been made aware to the other 15 countries on that list.

Drongo

Cadence is less revolutionary a concept on fixed-gear bikes, it would seem.

thunder

I don't think they have an institutionalised program. That would be stupid. Too risky, put the principals at risk of incarceration at worst.

My belief is there is a core, and the females may well not be privy to this, there is a core on the sprint and endurance side, who share knowledge and suppliers and perhaps even a doctor.

The young guys like Burke, Swift etc may not indulge. But their road base is in Italy.

Remember Cummings was on Discovery, and now under Corti at Barloworld. Thomas is on Barloworld. You think Hunter and Soler were clean last year? Please. Corti has his charges juiced.

Clancy and Cav did time at Sparkasse. The feeder of T-Mobile. I cannot think that Sparkasse are clean. Like Thuringer Energie, the two big espoir teams in Germany, both have a suspicious high performance like Rabobank espoirs.

I don't think they all are doping, nor is it institutionalised. But there are more than the sole rogue individual. I am even ready to consider the teams pursuit guys are all clean. I would not offer that generosity to the 2004 Athens Australian pursuit squad that broke/held the previous WR before Manchester.

Wiggins does himself no favours with his remarks. Just once I would like someone to come out and support the individual as a friend, not throw him under the bus, but then qualify his support by saying "the results and the science speaks for itself, he has never breached 50 in his entire career, so why would he now, if he was not a friend I would be disinclined to believe any reason proffered besides orchestrated doping."

But you will never hear that. I don't think it is mutually exclusive, I think the public would accept that, and for the good of the sport, you should be transparent. For the sake of the friendship if you cannot deal in honesty and transparency, what is it worth in the first place.

Crankyfeet

I think Wiggins is not thinking about the truth in his answers...He knows the truth will most likely come out eventually, irrespective of what he says. He's more conscious IMO of the next 50 or so years relationship he potentially has with the guy. If he said what you said he should say... then that relationship could be irrevocably damaged, irrespective of the outcome of Hayles' situation.

In that regard... It seems like it is more a relationship based statement than covering up a doping program IMHO. Most people give their friends the benefit of any doubt until there is no doubt.

Powerful Pete

In all fairness, it seems obvious to me that track cycling in the UK is quite well supported. Look at the difference with Italy, where track is slowly becoming (or has already become) a miniscule niche that no one in the Federation really cares about.

It would seem to me that having a strong track programme and having some riders who are not riding on bread and water would help come up with the kind of results that have come out of GB.

Promising riders here in Italy are steered away from the track - money and therefore contracts are in road riding. Period. All other 'traditional' cycling disciplines suffer because of this.

As a similar example, you have guys like Franzoi who have to road race all year and then their team 'allows' them to race competitively in the cyclocross season.

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thunder

Pozzato has ridden the odd pursuit.

Give a coach six months and Pozzato could be on Wiggins level, with his medical program.

Pozzato and Cancellara used to swap victories in tts and prologues when they were at Mapei espoirs. Pozzato is probably the best tter in Italy by a fair whack, but he never bothers to ride that discipline now.

Cancellara would dominate if he had 12 months to get his skill set to Wiggins level. But put Wiggins on a medical program and there would be no difference.

Powerful Pete

True Thunder, but that is my point. We have even become disinterested in time trialing. For us it is all about road races and the GTs. And we accept that our riders will usually lose time in the TTs.

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