Page 2 - Describe Your Best L6 Intervals

18-03.-2008, 05:55 PM

#16

Steve_B

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Re: Describe Your Best L6 Intervals

Quote:

Originally Posted by postal_bag

"all-out" refers to RPE, in this situation. So, although your power output will fall drastically, you continue to go "all-out" until the interval is over.

Like this.

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18-03.-2008, 11:17 PM

#17

wiredued

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Re: Describe Your Best L6 Intervals

Thanks Steve_B... Isn't 30s intervals considered L7? The acceleration I'm looking for is the kind that will keep me with the break away at the start of a race. I was caught unprepared last year in a 3 lap race on a 1mile per lap course when three riders moving much faster than the group passed everyone at the start on the outside and after the first lap could not even be seen any more. The gap was so big people were crossing the street as the gap went by... I suspect they were sand baggers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_B

Here's one that I did last year. 8 x 30sec with 90 sec recovery. I do these on a short hill that has a flatter section in the middle, as you can detect from the image.. Not that it's my choice to have the flat section, just that it's a convenient hill. I did the last 7 of the 8 at around 650 Watts, which was about 225% of my FTP at the time.

Note that 90sec is a decent recovery period, IMO. You can shorten the recovery periods and that will have the effect of probably lowering the peak powers that you obtain but also making the entire block (all work + all recoveries periods) more aerobic in nature, forcing your aerobic system to work harder to replenish the oxygen debt.

Take the short recovery to an extreme perhaps, and you've got something some people call "Tabata intervals".

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19-03.-2008, 12:37 AM

#18

Steve_B

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Re: Describe Your Best L6 Intervals

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredued

Thanks Steve_B... Isn't 30s intervals considered L7?

Understand that at that duration there is a neuromuscular (L7) contribution and contribution from other energy systems as well. See The Road Cyclist’s Guide to Training by Power, by Charles Howe, which is accessible (indirectly) here and (directly) here . Pages 5-8 are relevant background info. Figures 6-11 in the page 40-45 area are relevant too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiredued

The acceleration I'm looking for is the kind that will keep me with the break away at the start of a race. I was caught unprepared last year in a 3 lap race on a 1mile per lap course when three riders moving much faster than the group passed everyone at the start on the outside and after the first lap could not even be seen any more. The gap was so big people were crossing the street as the gap went by... I suspect they were sand baggers.

I view that as a combination of a lot of things. Attacking hard and then holding it to stay away, although certainly at a somewhat reduced power from the initial attack. That's probably a combination of many systems and certainly mostly a healthy aerobic system (L5 and below). Why? It gives you the ability to recover from that hard initial attack but also your aerobic system is what governs (or "caps") the upper end of your efforts beyond about 3 minutes or so. I couldn't do those 8x30 second intervals I show a few posts back maintaining that power out to the eighth interval without a healthy (for me) aerobic system replenishing my system. So, in attacking "at the starting gun" (or as we say here, "from the parking lot") like that, there is some anaerobic contribution initially but the ability to hold on like that is predominately aerobic in nature.

Those folks have a nice high FTP for the category they were racing. So, once again, we're back to why aerobic work should be the basis of your training. It is because a healthy aerobic system is so central to the demands of mass-start racing. That's not to say that L6 isn't important, just that it's not the dominant issue in the scenario you mention.

19-03.-2008, 12:28 PM

#19

Steve_B

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Re: Describe Your Best L6 Intervals

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve_B

That was poorly written but I think you get the point. Just in case it wasn't clear...

The initial attack was definately anaerobic/neuromuscular/eyeball-searing and then as their anaerobic systems ran out of gas, their aerobic system took over. It had to allow them to recover from that attack but also carry on at such a high level than no one was going to bother to try to bridge. Looking at the time scale and the distances involved, the aerobic system is what really has the most effect in this scenario. Sure, a lightning fast jump is great for the shock value but had they not had a very high FTP, the group would probably have caught them eventually as their ability to replenish after the attack and keep riding hard to stay away was pushed to the limit.

03-04.-2008, 04:08 AM	#20
strader Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 123	Re: Describe Your Best L6 Intervals Yesterday I tried L6 intervals again using ALL OUT pacing. On the first effort I set a PB for 1 minute power at 555 watt average. I'm finally in the "good" range of the Coggan power profile chart, and about 30 watts higher than my previous average. On the successive intervals average power fell off considerably: 555 watts, 442, 400, 449, 412, and a final wimper at 376 average watts. Between each effort I was spinning easy (<150 watts) for at least 5 minutes. I planned to do 10 L6 intervals, but called it quits after the last effort which was closer to my VO2max power. Is this reasonable for a L6 workout? Do I just need to train L6 more? I would think I have a good enough base with all the L3/4 I have been doing (ctl=86). This got me thinking: what if instead of setting aside a day every other week to train L6, I instead do a single 1 minute L6/7 effort two days per week on the days when I do L3/4 training. I would get the same weekly avg volume at L6 and be able to maximize the quality of the L6 workout (target ~550 watt average). L4 would seem easy after a L6/7 effort, but is a single 1 minute effort enough to trigger adaptation? Attached Thumbnails

03-04.-2008, 09:16 AM

#21

Piotr

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Re: Describe Your Best L6 Intervals

Quote:

Originally Posted by strader

Yesterday I tried L6 intervals again using ALL OUT pacing. On the first effort I set a PB for 1 minute power at 555 watt average. I'm finally in the "good" range of the Coggan power profile chart, and about 30 watts higher than my previous average.

On the successive intervals average power fell off considerably: 555 watts, 442, 400, 449, 412, and a final wimper at 376 average watts. Between each effort I was spinning easy (<150 watts) for at least 5 minutes. I planned to do 10 L6 intervals, but called it quits after the last effort which was closer to my VO2max power. Is this reasonable for a L6 workout? Do I just need to train L6 more? I would think I have a good enough base with all the L3/4 I have been doing (ctl=86).
This got me thinking: what if instead of setting aside a day every other week to train L6, I instead do a single 1 minute L6/7 effort two days per week on the days when I do L3/4 training. I would get the same weekly avg volume at L6 and be able to maximize the quality of the L6 workout (target ~550 watt average). L4 would seem easy after a L6/7 effort, but is a single 1 minute effort enough to trigger adaptation?

To train anaerobic capacity I think you ought to back off from doing all-out pacing because it shortens the amount of time you spend riding anaerobically. For example, ride 10 intervals at an even 440W and you will be able to ride your intervals to completion. 10 min (or more) at 440W AP is better than 6 min at 449W AP (your average). I think that first interval PB is what ruined the rest of the workout for you.

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12-04.-2008, 06:01 AM

#22

Steve_B

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Re: Describe Your Best L6 Intervals

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr

+1. In a similar vein, the general rule of thumb for many (most?) interval regimes is to shoot for roughly 90% of your best power over that same duration. Obviously, this is just a guide. You probably generated that best power when you are rested and if you are doing the intervals in a less-than-well-rested state, that 90% rule of thumb may be difficult to achieve for the number of intervals you are seeking to do.

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