Page 7 - No Tour for Astana

15-02.-2008, 04:33 AM

#91

docgtn

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Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 25

Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by helmutRoole2

Because being a hypocrite is worse than lying by omission.

They're all doping to some degree.

I still have hope that they are not all doping, but I realize that most are. Kloden has always been the second best guy on a team where the best guy was doping. He should have won 2 years ago but circumstances did not play out in his favor. Is he always second best because he is just second best or is he always second best because he is clean and the other guys are not?

15-02.-2008, 04:39 AM

#92

Casa

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Join Date: Oct 2007

Posts: 109

Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by helmutRoole2

Because being a hypocrite is worse than lying by omission.

They're all doping to some degree.

So if they are all doping then why spend so much time going after one or two specific people?

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15-02.-2008, 04:40 AM

#93

docgtn

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Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 25

Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by docgtn

In addition why is cycling the only endurance sport where you regularly hear about the atheletes having asthma. I know there are other sports where guys have asthma but that is the exception in those sports, cycling seems to not only have numerous guys with asthma but the elite also seem to often times have asthma. I would think asthma would limit your ability. I do not hear about marathon runners or long distance swimmers having asthma. Why cycling? Besides Bettis can anyone name a football player or a baseball player with asthma?

15-02.-2008, 04:49 AM

#94

poulidor

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Posts: 1,156

Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbonfiend

it makes pro cycling look stupid and prudhommes comments are full of inconsistencies and non sense as. Ban the team but you have no problem with the riders??? He doesn't make sense and also to attack Contador without any eveidence in fact if anything he has been completley cleared of any involvment in operation puerto. I wonder how many would hang him if he road for slipstream etc I completely agree with the comments that this ban was taken to flex muscle with the UCI and JB and that the consequence would be worth taking and also had a much to do with TV advertising/rights etc. Also there's something a bit darker if you ask me - would they have banned Astana if they were French??? Its really easy to pick on country that has little or no strenght when it comes to matter of politics in cycling - why haven't Cofidis/High Road/RabobanK been banned. It truly stinks and we are apparently now finding people guilty by association - if thats the case lets look at Cadel Evans - hell man he rides for a Belgium team and look the history of them in the past and he has just hired Popovych as his right hand man he rode for JB - bang he must be doping

- BAN HIM

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15-02.-2008, 05:01 AM

#95

helmutRoole2

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Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casa

So if they are all doping then why spend so much time going after one or two specific people?

Like who?

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15-02.-2008, 05:05 AM

#96

Bro Deal

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Posts: 6,320

Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbonfiend

- BAN HIM

Canatdor has been "cleared" by the Spanish, who cannot be trusted one bit when it comes to doping. All of Contador's teammates were on the juice, and we now know that the spanish investigators never looked at Fuentes computer files. Unless Fuentes was computer illiterate that is where you would expect the best info to be.

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15-02.-2008, 07:14 AM

#97

padawan

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Location: T.O.

Posts: 237

Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by earth_dweller

Savoldelli is not with Astana this year, he bailed at the end of 2007.

Exactly my point!

15-02.-2008, 07:19 PM

#98

classic1

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Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Barwon Prison via Collingwood

Posts: 4,027

Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

None of the riders have been 'cleared' of anything. They simply haven't committed any crimes under Spanish Law. Thats not to say they haven't committed doping violations. In any case Puerto is/was investigating Fuentes, not the athletes, who were collateral damage or witnesses. For the Hogg to say that Contador has been cleared is just him being disingenious.

Edit - this is for our carbon fibre friends benefit, not for Bro.

Last edited by classic1 : 15-02.-2008 at 08:33 PM.

15-02.-2008, 11:42 PM

#99

docgtn

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Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 25

Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by classic1

Yahoo reported that Puerto was ordered reopened yesterday so in that case Contador would not be allowed to ride in the Grand Tours anyway because he is being investigated. Everyone of them are cheats. It is that simple. Just because everyone else is cheating does not diminish your act of cheating. It is still wrong. Bobby Jones once compared reporters who were congratulating him for calling a penalty stroke on himself that no one else saw, to people who would congratualate a man for not robbing a bank. I have seen the tour in person and it was one of the most thrilling experiences of my life but now I look back at it and realize that I was likely watching the last clean champion being beaten by a doper. It is very disappointing.

16-02.-2008, 12:38 AM

#100

cyclingheroes

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Posts: 3,456

Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by docgtn

Puerto is re-opened but: NOT AGAINST THE RIDERS! It never was against the riders, the federations opend cases against the riders, this is about the criminal investigations against the doctors and their little helpers (Fuentes, Saiz and co).

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16-02.-2008, 04:11 AM

#101

docgtn

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Join Date: Aug 2007

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Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyclingheroes

The ruling of the court yesterday said that although the riders face no criminal charges and did nothing illegal they could be prosecuted by their federations if the federations think the puerto investigation shows the rider to have doped. That is what I understand from the article. I would assume that all federations save perhaps the Kazaks will prosecute the riders. Am I wrond about this?

16-02.-2008, 04:30 AM

#102

cyclingheroes

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Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by docgtn

Correct but until now the federations did not open proceedings against the riders (with the exemption of Basso, Jaksche and two or three others).

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16-02.-2008, 04:33 AM

#103

poulidor

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Re: No Tour for Astana

A machine translation from as.com:

Quote:

The Court of the Provincial Hearing of Madrid, presided over by Arturo Beltrán, has decided to reopen the Operation almost Port a year after Mountain Antonio, to title of the Court number 1 of Madrid, decided its sobreseimento and file (8 of March of 2007). The failure not yet is official, but Eugene Bermúdez, Secretary General of the Spanish Federation of Ciclismo (FEC), confirmed AS that had had "verbal certainty" of the reapertura of the case.
"But without the official resolution we cannot know to what extent it has been acceded to the requests that we did, if to the whole or a part", Bermúdez said that despite was satisfied. "the Court has given the reason us on that more investigations could be done and to deepen more in other already initiated.
But it is necessary to know until where he gives the reason us ". On the matter, a rumor that circulated yesterday they were solely going away to reopen the files of Eufemiano Fuentes and Merino Batres, but can be an interested rumor.

It returns to the same judge.
What yes it is clear is that the process will return to the Court number 31, of which continues being to title Mountain Antonio. He will be he who continues with the instruction, practices the diligences that to him the Court requests and, if he creates it opportune, the new ones whom to him the office of the public prosecutor or the defense asks for. It will not be before six months when the judge solves between two possibilities: new file of the case, if it considers that either the new investigations do not contribute importance data, or on the contrary, opening of a new oral judgment.
In this second case he is complicated to foretell how much it is going to last the case, but can give by insurance that we are going to have Operation at least Port by a year more. The judgment would be always managed according to the laws that existed at the moment of the facts (23 of May of 2006), that anticipated crimes against the public health, and not with the new Law Antidopaje in that harder sanctions for these cases are anticipated.

The cyclists.
In the old law pains for the cyclists are not contemplated, unless it demonstrates that they have contributed to the traffic of substances, but by not to have drugged. Another thing is that sport files are opened to them and are sanctioned. Indeed this he is one of the points that the Federation had asked the Court of the Hearing, power to use the data of the summary to judge the cyclists, something that the judge denied to them and that it has caused that all the runners who were identified by the Civil Guard as clients of Eufemiano follow without being able to even file by ProTour equipment or retired officers, without getting to be sanctioned, not even expedientados.
There were numerous reasons so that the Operation reopened Port. The judge decided not to interrogate all the cyclists, because he considered that the one that had suffered damages by the dopaje would have presented/displayed voluntarily. Yes he made it to denounce this Jesus indeed Apple tree, but the judge did not take declaration him, because their denunciations belonged to another case that already had been sobreseído. He either did not authorize the judge to the upset one of the information of the taken part movable telephones and he did not let to the investigators to accede to the data of the computers, thing that became under its strict control.
Another diligence that did not see necessary was the analysis of medicines seized, when the Civil Guard even found falsified drugs, of the same one makes clandestine dismantled by the Operation Mammoth. The 99 bags of blood were not analyzed, only eight, those that more probabilities had to contain exogenous EPO, as therefore it were verified.

Or it gave by good that the boxes of Synachten were for curing the asthma of Eufemiano that found to him to Manolo Saiz and that the German Police demonstrated that they were of an illicit deflection.

16-02.-2008, 08:17 AM	#104
micron Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 589	Re: No Tour for Astana I really hope this is the end for Bruyneel - the sport has moved on and there's no longer a place for his arrogance and deception. It's about time he was held to account for thinking himself above the sport. Unipublic are a little disingenuous when they say Contador has nothing to do with Astana - they've forgotten already that Astana grew from Liberty have they? If I were Bertie, I'd want as new manager because he's getting appalling advice - getting banned from 2 of the last 3 TdFs isn't big or clever. But he's seemingly incapable of cutting the strings that bind him to Liberty/Saiz/ONCE/the Hog isn't he - I wonder exactly why that could be?

16-02.-2008, 09:48 AM	#105
Aquamarinos Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 95	Re: No Tour for Astana I'm quite sure Astana is going to be at the Tour 2008... Call it a gut feeling.. ASO crossed the line with this one, just my two cents... I'm fine with Bruyneel booted out of the spot, just take the rest with him, Riis, Holm, Madiot, Lefevere etc....

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