Page 2 - No Tour for Astana

14-02.-2008, 02:58 AM

#16

Bro Deal

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Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquamarinos

Vuelta is confirmed (well, if there's not a new dope scandal of course)

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...cle_180550.html

I still think this was a bad desicion, why allow teams like Rabobank who have done nothing to clear up the mess they caused last year.
Leaving the previous Champ out without failing a dope test is not good for cycling in any means...
Contador is furious.

I guess that Rabobank and the ASO came to an agreement when the ASO was pressuring the team to get rid of Rasmussen. Ras was one case. Astana had Kessler, Vino, Kash, Eddy M., and the team was the new name for Liberty Seguros, which had all its top riders plus its manager involved in OP.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

14-02.-2008, 03:00 AM

#17

TheDarkLord

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Join Date: Dec 2007

Location: The land where the shadows lie

Posts: 3,112

Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

Forget about DP, the paceline members will be jumping off of bridges, buildings, and highway overpasses. This could rival Jonestown.

Nah! It may come to that in the end, but right now, the emotion will be anger. There may be more petitions, or even talk of lawsuits. Someone should keep an eye on how they react (do you volunteer Bro?).

14-02.-2008, 03:01 AM	#18
poulidor Registered User Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 933	Re: No Tour for Astana All rothen eggs in the same basket, easier to throw its all once !

14-02.-2008, 03:05 AM

#19

Bro Deal

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Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkLord

I'll go pick out the choice posts and put them in the Other Forum Follies thread.

14-02.-2008, 03:25 AM

#20

thoughtforfood

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Posts: 1,792

Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

I'll go pick out the choice posts and put them in the Other Forum Follies thread.

I read the posts from Paceline, and I can say that I couldn't be happier. I not only feel contempt for JB and his band of merry centrufuge warriors, but emence contempt for the asshats that post there.

I especially like the conspiracy theory.

Tonight, I will be nestled all snug in my bed, with visions of stomping feet and red faces dancing in my head.

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14-02.-2008, 03:35 AM	#21
TheDarkLord Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The land where the shadows lie Posts: 3,112	Re: No Tour for Astana OK, but what do you think is the REAL reason for ASO to not invite Astana? This whole disgrace thing is probably a smokescreen - especially considering that High Road is invited after the Sinkewitz incident. My guess is that it is due to the power struggle between ASO and UCI. First, UCI tells them that they should invite all 18 ProTeams. Then, UCI explicitly says that Astana should be invited to the Tour. So, this may be the signal from ASO to ask UCI to mind its own business and not dictate to ASO on how to run its races. Any other ideas?

14-02.-2008, 03:45 AM	#22
Bro Deal Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Resting by the Tumtum tree Posts: 5,602	Re: No Tour for Astana The paceline is mobilizing to start an e-mail campaign. They just posted this link the Velonews. http://www.velonews.com/article/72005 Perhaps I will have to contribute something... __________________ "You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

14-02.-2008, 03:48 AM

#23

earth_dweller

Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2006

Posts: 1,276

Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkLord

OK, but what do you think is the REAL reason for ASO to not invite Astana? This whole disgrace thing is probably a smokescreen - especially considering that High Road is invited after the Sinkewitz incident. My guess is that it is due to the power struggle between ASO and UCI. First, UCI tells them that they should invite all 18 ProTeams. Then, UCI explicitly says that Astana should be invited to the Tour. So, this may be the signal from ASO to ask UCI to mind its own business and not dictate to ASO on how to run its races. Any other ideas?

Agreed. This is ASO taking down UCI a notch (more than a notch) down by using the UCI's BFF Bruyneel. It has nothing to do with Contador and OP, if it did well then Caisse d'epargne would also be on the banned list, and others.

14-02.-2008, 03:49 AM	#24
docgtn Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 25	Re: No Tour for Astana Just wondering if anyone knows how this affects the riders for Astana? I would think there would be some type of out clause in their contracts if they are not allowed to ride in the tour? I know that cycling is in trouble and all that and that likely most of the riders are cheating but I would still like there to be an american with a chance to win if possible. I would think there would be other teams who would want to take Levi Kloden and Contador. If Astana folds and they become free agents or if they can get out of their contracts does signing one of them put their new team at risk for getting uninvited?

14-02.-2008, 04:03 AM

#25

poulidor

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Join Date: Jul 2006

Posts: 933

Re: No Tour for Astana

From http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/20080213_165652Dev.html

Quote:

Christian Prudhomme, pourquoi avoir évincé Astana ?
On ne peut pas tirer un trait, comme cela, sur ce qui s'est passé ces deux dernières années. Non seulement en 2007 mais aussi en 2006. Nous n'avons pas le droit d'avoir la mémoire courte. En 2006, une équipe naît sur les cendres de Liberty Seguros. Dans cette équipe-là, la moitié des coureurs est citée dans l'opération Puerto et, de fait, ne peut pas prendre le départ du Tour. L'année suivante, on nous explique qu'il y a une nouvelle équipe, un nouvel encadrement, que tout est nouveau. On leur fait confiance, on les invite sur le Tour. Nous avons reconnu que nous avions fait une erreur de les prendre. Nous ne voulons pas refaire la même erreur deux fois de suite.

L'encadrement et une partie des coureurs ont de nouveau changé chez Astana...
Cette année, c'est une deuxième nouvelle équipe, qui nous redit la même chose que l'année dernière: "On n'a rien à voir avec le passé". Ce qui est vrai... sauf que l'on ne peut pas solder ce passé comme cela. Tout ce qui est annoncé pour 2008, les nouvelles mesures, les contrôles internes, etc, c'est très bien. On ne souhaite qu'une chose, que cela marche. Si ça marche, on les reverra dans nos épreuves un peu plus tard. Mais pas cette saison.

Est-ce une punition ?
Non. On se retrouve seulement dans la même situation que l'année dernière. On a déjà payé pour voir. Cette fois-ci, on veut attendre. On est dans le solde du passé. D'ailleurs, Johan Bruyneel (manager d'Astana) l'a dit à maintes reprises: "Je ne peux pas effacer ce qui s'est passé".

Est-ce que vous ne faites pas confiance au nouveau passeport sanguin, obligatoire pour tous les coureurs ?
C'est une très belle avancée, sans aucun doute, un outil extrêmement important mais ce n'est pas l'arme absolue.

Pourquoi avoir seulement sanctionné Astana ? Et pas High Road (ex T-Mobile) par exemple ?
On n'est pas dans la même situation. L'affaire Sinkewitz s'est passée avant le Tour. Si chacun avait voulu protéger le Tour, nous aurions connu le résultat le concernant avant le départ du Tour.

Contador paye-t-il les soupçons qui l'ont entouré l'an dernier ?
Ce n'est pas une mesure anti-Contador, en aucune manière. Cela ne nous amuse pas de ne pas avoir Contador mais le système dans le cyclisme est ainsi fait depuis plus de cinquante ans que ce sont les équipes qui sont sélectionnées.

Translation

Quote:

"Christian Prudhomme, why have ousted Astana?
You can not draw a line, like this, about what happened in the last two years. Not only in 2007 but also in 2006. We have no right to have short memories. In 2006, a team born from the ashes of Liberty Seguros. In this team there, half of the riders is quoted in the operation Puerto, and indeed can not take the start of the Tour. The following year, we are told that there is a new team, a new framework, that everything is new. They trusted, they were invited on the Tour. We recognized that we had made a mistake to take them. We do not want to repeat the same mistake twice in a row.

The coaching and some of the riders have changed again in Astana ...

This year, a second new team, which we repeated the same thing as last year: "It has nothing to do with the past." What is true ... Except that you can not settle this happened like that. Everything that has been announced for 2008, the new measures, internal controls, etc., that is fine. One wishes only one thing, that it works. If it works, we will in our tests a little later. But not this season.

Is this a punishment?
Not. It is found only in the same position as last year. It has already paid to see. This time, we want to wait. It is in the balance in the past. Indeed, Johan Bruyneel (Astana manager) has said repeatedly: "I can not erase what happened."

Is it that you do not trust the new blood passport, mandatory for all riders?
It is a beautiful way, without doubt, an extremely important tool but it is not the ultimate weapon.

Why have only sanctioned Astana? And not High Road (formerly T-Mobile) for instance?
It is not in the same situation. Sinkewitz The case went before the Tour. If everyone had wanted to protect the Tour, we would have known about the result before the start of the Tour.

Contador pay Does the suspicions that have surrounded the last year?
This is not an anti-Contador able, in any way. This does not amuse us not having Contador but the system in cycling is done for over fifty years that the teams are selected.

As is known the selection of teams for the Tour?
It is the will before the end of the month.

How do you respond to those, the UCI or the association of riders, who were involved in the selection of teams by the organisers, starting with the Giro?
It does not want arbitrary, we want a system based on the sport. 2008 is a very special season during which cycling has no right to make mistakes. Obviously, we need well-defined criteria for 2009 and subsequent seasons. Here we are in a situation which was not of our making. "

14-02.-2008, 04:29 AM

#26

Frigo's Luggage

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Join Date: Sep 2006

Posts: 1,136

Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

The paceline is mobilizing to start an e-mail campaign. They just posted this link the Velonews.

http://www.velonews.com/article/72005

Perhaps I will have to contribute something...

I guess Jeff Vader's petition didn't work. He is going to be pissed.

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14-02.-2008, 04:31 AM

#27

TheDarkLord

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Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frigo's Luggage

I guess Jeff Vader's petition didn't work. He is going to be pissed.

He is going to kill us all.

14-02.-2008, 04:33 AM

#28

helmutRoole2

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Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtforfood

I wouldn't say I'm happy, but I do find this this interesting. It's like going out on a date with a real fine woman and getting her home to discover she's a hermaphrodite. Sometimes you just have to roll with the punches and make the best of the situation even if it hurts a little bit.

(I don't think the folks over at the paceline would find any humor in the above statement.)

Anyway, I'll miss the Astana squad, but this is probably good for the sport, despite being unfair to a degree. I suspect Astana will pull its sponsorship, the team will disolve and that might allow the riders to sign with other teams -- if it's not too late. Not sure what the rules on that are. I know there's a signing deadline.

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14-02.-2008, 04:42 AM

#29

Bro Deal

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Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by helmutRoole2

I am sure the UCI would make exceptions. Teams have already spent their budgets. Contador may be one of the few riders who could find personal sponsorship to bring to a new team. Of course, any team would have to worry about what putting Contador on the team might cause the ASO to do.

14-02.-2008, 04:44 AM

#30

thoughtforfood

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Re: No Tour for Astana

Quote:

Originally Posted by helmutRoole2

I am not sure I found it funny, but I did spit some sauerkraut, thousand island dressing, swiss cheese, corned beef and rye bread on my keyboard....you know...a sign that you hit too close to home.

ANYWAY, I too agree that they are being treated unfairly to an extent. However, if you want to prove you are a real bad ass, you pick the biggest guy in the room to fight and hit him right where the jaw connects to the skull and knock his ass out. The other people in the room will begin looking at each other and listen to what you have to say after that.

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