No Tour for Astana

Crankyfeet

That's right...they let Levi take his fair share of the wind and just rode their own race... Didn't try to save themselves at all in case they were needed to do the frickin' job they were there for.

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tambourlain

Voigt is older than Levi, and he is the best of his career. Carlos Lopes won the Olympic marathon when he was 38. Stefano Baldini won the Olympic marathon when he was 34, and he won the European championships when he was 36. Zoetemelk won the Tour at 34 and the World Championships at 38. Now, tell me, why do you keep trying to manufacture these bullshit excuses to use against Levi.

Crankyfeet

You numbskull, they ALL fail the dope test of improbable circumstance. Lopes was probably blood doping in 1984.

Like Linford Christie. Doper.

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tambourlain

What does that have to do with anything. They all knew that their blood bags were in the fridge before they were accused. So if anyone was going to lay low because of Puerto, they would have been doing it in June. I'm incredulous at the rationaliztions that dip wads like you try to generate to make a point that simply isn't there.

thunder

your invocation of Voigt just failed your argument you fool.

Voigt is a doper too.

tambourlain

The dope test of improbable circumstance? What the hell are you talking about?

C'dale Girl

The improbable odds that a superstar athlete, albeit still only human, in his mid to late 30s is beating all kinds of younger athletes, equally talented, and even setting records and such, all on his own, without any help from a PED.

Edit: oh yeah, and also whooping up on all those that HAVE been found to have doped at some point.

Btw, the improbability, as odds are concerned, comes with repeated occurances of such scenarios out of the same older athlete, over and over.

tambourlain

Let me guess, somebody told your girlfriend. Voigt isn't the point numb nuts, the point is that there are many, many athletes that compete at the top of their sports in their mid and late thirties.

By the way, if Voigt is a doper, why is CSC in the Tour - given that Mr. 60% runs the team, and given that Basso was doing his doping while at CSC. Also given young Schleck's miraculous, out of nowhere performance in last year's Giro.

Crankyfeet

I'm talking about simple physiology. People don't peak when they're 38. Lopes wasn't even a good long distance runner until he was 29. Improbable like, someone pulling out the performance of their life when they are way past their physical prime.

Improbable circumstance - like Flo Jo suddenly dropping her time for the 100m by 0.5 secs at the age of 26. It fails the physiology test. Dope tests are easy to pass. Unless you're as stupid as someone like Ben Johnson.

You still haven't answered my conundrum question. If dope tests pick up all dopers, then why would anyone dope?

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tambourlain

Like I just said - nothing improbable about it at all. Many, many athletes have their best years in their thirties.


So you are saying that Evans is a doper. Interesting.

thunder

Evans was runner up in worlds jnr tt, when he was a mtber, he was twice world cup winner as a mtber by the tme he was 22, he wore the maglia rosa in the third week in his first Giro at 24. Won Tour of Austria, and Travers a Lausanne at 23.

Your point?

Levi was riding in Tour de Beuce with Saturn. Come on mate.

Evans is boosting his blood I believe.

But he is not getting the transfusions during the tour, nor the recovery dope that Discovery/Postal did/were.

squidwranglr

I'm going to stay out of the primary subject of this "discussion" (using the term rather broadly), but I just wanted to point out that the above statement that "men physically peak from 25-30" is too unscientific and too generalized in a manner that specifically may not be applicable to endurance sports.

Here are the last ten years' winners of the Ironman World Championship in Kona and their ages at the time of their wins:

2007 Chris McCormack 34
2006 Normann Stadler 33
2005 Faris Al-Sultan 27
2004 Normann Stadler 31
2003 Peter Reid 34
2002 Tim DeBoom 32
2001 Tim DeBoom 31
2000 Peter Reid 31
1999 Luc Van Lierde 30
1998 Peter Reid 29

That computes to an average age of 31.2. This is one of the toughest endurance events in the world. The above data, and other evidence that you could dig up (I'd suggest sports physiology journals), seem to indicate that there may be physical, physiological and psychological factors that make elite endurance athletes peak later than might otherwise be expected.

Berend

Frigo's Luggage

Welcome aboard Tambo. I've been hoping that someone as smart as you would show up on this forum.

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We are all made of stars.

C'dale Girl

Did I ever say he wasn't? I didn't say whether any are or aren't. That's not for me to say imo. I merely explained to you what Crankyfeet meant with his improbable circumstance statement.

I'm curious though. In your opinion, why do you think it is that in the last 10 or 15 years, suddenly athletes are peaking in their 30s, and beating out their younger competition, when it used to be that athletes were forced to retire in their early 30s? Do you attribute it to evolution, along with nutrition and better knowledge about training/equipment, etc.? We're simply stronger and smarter today?