Page 2 - Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

13-02.-2008, 01:19 AM

#16

Bro Deal

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trev_S

I think you guys are reading into something that doesn't exist.
Cadel is not backing Contador he is saying he would like him & Astana in the race. As defending champ the pressure will immediately be on Contador and the Astana team...

What I am saying is that if Evans wants to win, he needs to be a mean motherfucker. He should be thinking that if Astana isn't there then Cantadope, Leipheimer, and Kloden, his main rivals, won't be there and he will have a very high probability of winning. He should be using language that accepts the possibility and even necessity of not inviting Astana. He should be opening the door for the ASO.

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13-02.-2008, 01:33 AM

#17

TheDarkLord

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

Didn't he just extend his contract with Silence-Lotto? Why did he do that if he knew that the team would not be able to provide adequate support to his TdF ambitions? Is it because he wouldn't have gotten a contract with other teams, or is he just being a wussie?

13-02.-2008, 02:56 AM

#18

Andrija

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trev_S

...Cadel can use Astana by sitting in on their gains on the road after if/when his own team mates have dropped off. Limit his losses where he has to and make gains where his strengths lay.
Simple tactic, let Astana do the work, then capitalise...

Well, why would you think, he can apply that tactics this year, if he couldn't last year, against the same rivals?

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13-02.-2008, 04:34 AM

#19

helmutRoole2

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trev_S

Silence-Lotto as Cadel states does not have the same structure of Astana and can not control the race to the same affect. Cadel can use Astana by sitting in on their gains on the road after if/when his own team mates have dropped off. Limit his losses where he has to and make gains where his strengths lay.
Simple tactic, let Astana do the work, then capitalise.

Nothing, nothing, nothing beats your own support. Relying on another team to make the race might work once in a single-day race if no one knows who you are, but after that, or in a stage race, if you don't have the horses to pull moves back, put riders in breaks, etc., you're at a disadvantage.

Astana's top three riders could battle it out for GC while the rest of the team contained Evans without a problem. Astana is arguably more powerful than Armstrong's Disco.

Personally, I'd like to see them race regardless of their past indiscretions with performance enhancing drugs, blood doping practices and lying. So what? They were better at being underhanded than the rest. Should they be penalized for it?

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13-02.-2008, 05:00 AM

#20

thoughtforfood

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by helmutRoole2

So what? They were better at being underhanded than the rest. Should they be penalized for it?

In my honest opinion, no they shouldn't. I am not signing any petition or anything, and seeing Bruyneel look like an idiot makes me chuckle, but otherwise, it kind of seems like picking out the biggest cheater out of a room full of cheaters is kind of disingenuous.

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13-02.-2008, 05:14 AM

#21

earth_dweller

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtforfood

With you on that one, I enjoy seeing Bruyneel twisting in the wind, and mostly I enjoy reading the Discatana's fans amazing view of the world - how they are read to twist logic around, and their hate of anything not Discotana.

13-02.-2008, 05:24 AM

#22

TheDarkLord

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by helmutRoole2

Personally, I'd like to see them race regardless of their past indiscretions with performance enhancing drugs, blood doping practices and lying. So what? They were better at being underhanded than the rest. Should they be penalized for it?

I agree with TFF and Edie here. The goal should be to get rid of cheaters, not let the best cheater win.

13-02.-2008, 05:41 AM

#23

helmutRoole2

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkLord

I agree with TFF and Edie here. The goal should be to get rid of cheaters, not let the best cheater win.

But they're all cheating. Some are just better than others -- better at cheating and better at riding their bikes. The reality is, Astana riders underwent the same scrutiny, same test and investigations as everyone else, so why not let them race? They're still the best riders in the doped peloton.

Retribution is pointless. Decide on the rules, apply them and let the cards fall where they may. Look, you're either caught or you're not caught. JB has never been caught. Say what you will about the seemingly obvious fire that's bellowing smoke from this organization, but still, it's just smoke.

I like to see JB twisting the wind too. It's his just deserts after seven years of Armstrong shenanigans, but wouldn't you rather see him roll the dice under the microscopic pressure cooker that is the Tour de France? If he's going to get busted, it's going to be there.

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13-02.-2008, 05:43 AM

#24

Bro Deal

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoughtforfood

Another way to look at it is that it would be sending a clear signal. Signing big riders should not be able to be used as a defense against exclusion.

13-02.-2008, 05:50 AM

#25

Bro Deal

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by helmutRoole2

I have somewhat switched to the belief that Disco got away with it not be beating the same tests that everyone else was subjected to, but by UCI corruption. I am not sold entirely on the idea.

13-02.-2008, 05:55 AM

#26

thoughtforfood

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

Another way to look at it is that it would be sending a clear signal. Signing big riders should not be able to be used as a defense against exclusion.

I agree, but I still agree with helmut because the riders in question are at best "under suspicion." as is JB. Trust me, I would like nothing better than seeing his ass busted along with his drugged out minions (though hopefully before the Tour. This year I really want to watch a race and not a parade of drug offenses.). However, as things currently stand, there are teams and riders who will participate in the Giro that are surrounded by accusations and rumors. To pick out "the worst" seems....

You know, mid write, I realized that you do have to start somewhere...again. I am just not sure that excluding some of the best riders from the Tour is the answer. It sends a message, but will it stop the doping?

I really just want to see a good race this year, period.

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13-02.-2008, 05:57 AM

#27

thoughtforfood

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

I have somewhat switched to the belief that Disco got away with it not be beating the same tests that everyone else was subjected to, but by UCI corruption. I am not sold entirely on the idea.

I think that is a distinct possibility also. As more evidence comes to the surface, those guys were a traveling pharmaseutical/centrifuge freak show, and they didn't get caught?

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13-02.-2008, 05:59 AM

#28

helmutRoole2

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

I have somewhat switched to the belief that Disco got away with it not be beating the same tests that everyone else was subjected to, but by UCI corruption. I am not sold entirely on the idea.

I could see that, or they were running a designer form of EPO. Actually, given BALCO, that's probably the greater possibility.

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13-02.-2008, 06:03 AM

#29

TheDarkLord

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Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

I have somewhat switched to the belief that Disco got away with it not be beating the same tests that everyone else was subjected to, but by UCI corruption. I am not sold entirely on the idea.

Helmut, what Bro said above is why I wouldn't mind Discotana being banned from all GTs. I guess I have been turned to this opinion after (a) Victor Conte's admission of systematic widespread coverups of positive tests in professional sports and (b) what cyclingheroes has posted about UCI. So, that's what makes it unfair between JB and other teams, and that's why UCI is fighting to get Discotana invited to TdF, and that's why I would rather that ASO flips them off and doesn't invite JB's boys.

13-02.-2008, 06:22 AM	#30
Crankyfeet Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: You are here => X Posts: 8,156	Re: Cadel EVANS supporting Contadope !!!! The question is, if a rider is found to be doping, what is the punishment? If you exclude the team (indefinitely), then by example you are going to have teams (and sponsors) more vigilant about monitoring their riders. But how much of Vino's doping were the Astana sponsors responsible for? How much was the team management responsible for? We need to go beyond just blaming and penalizing the rider who fails the test, but there is a limit on how much the team can do to make sure their rider is squeaky clean. If the team gets rid of the rider and sacks the DS and other support management, isn't that enough to give them a chance to prove that things have changed? Cycling needs to support its sponsors. Astanas don't grow on trees, especially in these turbulent times. What is really needed IMHO is a step-by-step system of actions and consequences. In this mudfight over who wields the most power, the application of consequences is arbitrary/subjective and inconsistent. Just my 2c. Apologies to the OP for my soap box rant slightly off topic. Last edited by Crankyfeet : 13-02.-2008 at 06:35 AM.

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