BREAKING NEWS: ASTANA & HIGH ROAD BANNED FROM GIRO !!!!

Crankyfeet

It seems political to me re. CONI. Since when have the Italians been against doping?

But the way this damages cycling IMO is it makes the sponsorship gamble even worse. It further increases the risk of teams being excluded for things out of their control. Okay... so maybe Astana and High Road are villains and they have doping clouds over some of their riders... but what is the policy here? Where is the line in the sand? How does a sponsor know what is going to happen to their team (re. invites to major races) if a couple of their riders get exposed Puerto style... for indiscretions they were unaware of when they hired them? It seems a continuation of warring factions... and who loses?... the sponsors.

Hopefully... it may encourage all teams to end up like Slipstream... but there is going to be a major shrinking in money perhaps before that happens.

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Originally posted by Frigo's Luggage...

"[Calling him] 'dickcheese' is the insult of a master. Some people work in oil, some people work in clay. He [thoughtforfood] works in profanity. Open your mind and enjoy its beauty."

whiteboytrash

Ahhhh the soup Nazi.... where is he now ?

whiteboytrash

Yes can see Basso suspension ending a day before the Giro........ then he'll ride for LPR.... that would make Bruyneel set his entire stash on fire ! (well he'll have a quick shot of pot belge for old times sake)

TheDarkLord

To me, it just seems like CONI is trying to act against the riders protected by the Spanish government. So, yeah, probably political, but probably not unjust. And I don't think the situation is as bad as you make it here. The message to sponsors is clear - if you want your team invited, don't hire riders who have a cloud of suspicion over them, especially like OP with the obvious coverups by the higher ups to save other sports.

Casa

All of this discussion and only two of the four Pro Tour teams that were not invited are discussed. I would think the other two would be much bigger news as they would seem to be shocking non-invites...at least based on the wording they used.

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Having a great time laughing at you morons!

helmutRoole2

Discus...

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"Bait in 08" --nns1400

Crankyfeet

Until CONI opened up its investigation... it would have ben reasonable to assume from a sponsors standpoint that the OP case was closed (however wrong that decision was). Furthermore, my point extended to the opinion that sponsors can never know the entire, yet-to-be-exposed, histories of the riders they hire.

__________________
Originally posted by Frigo's Luggage...

"[Calling him] 'dickcheese' is the insult of a master. Some people work in oil, some people work in clay. He [thoughtforfood] works in profanity. Open your mind and enjoy its beauty."

TheDarkLord

I don't think OP = closed is a reasonable assumption though. Wasn't there an attempt to get to some of the OP stuff last year from that German investigator (forget the name right now)? Fair point about the yet-to-be-esposed-history; but this should encourage the teams to adopt measures similar to what Slipstream has done. If the sponsors lay down some such conditions to the team managers (prior to funding the team) to ensure that they at least look serious about combating doping, there shouldn't be much problem. But we all know about Bruyneel's method of "combating doping", and the T-Mobile team has just recently been hit with the revelation of the major doping history. So, their exclusion should not be too surprising for the sponsors. All I am saying is this is not a case of "teams not being invited randomly" to cause panic among sponsors.

Crankyfeet

And I am not defending Astana or Stapleton. And I agree that a your pro tour full of Slipstreams is where we need to end up. I am just concerned that cycling has to walk a tightrope to get there, and a continuation of everyone trying to outhurt each other, may cause damage that makes it difficult to recover from. Its not about covering things up. The omerta should be broken. The truth should come out. But future sponsors (and current for that matter) are always weighing up risks, and they will see risk from this type of measure that goes beyond their control. Even Slipstream carries risk that one of their "clean" riders is not busted in a Vienna lab style case, where the doping was unbeknownst to them.

Really the problem here occurs from the fact that the initial investigation was covered up. It is this slow bleed of revelation/cover-up that makes it risky. Get the friggin SWAT team in there and blow this thing wide open. Doctors, DS's, Labs, everything. Unfortunately... UCI has too much to be scared of, if everything is revealed IMO (in the wider picture... not specifically OP)

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Originally posted by Frigo's Luggage...

"[Calling him] 'dickcheese' is the insult of a master. Some people work in oil, some people work in clay. He [thoughtforfood] works in profanity. Open your mind and enjoy its beauty."

Moller

When the Tour route was announced I thought that the rest day in Italy was for a 'reason' whether it was to make it difficult for the couriers to get to the blood bags teams or maybe a 'san remo' style raid.
But maybe the Italian investigation is the reason, if they can't race on italian soil, then they can't ride the Tour.
It's a big coincidence I think.

TheDarkLord

I didn't imply in my post that you were defending Astana or Stapleton. Unfortunately, there is a lot of politics involved, and cycling is taking the brunt of it at the expense of sparing other sports. But if all teams were to implement a good transparent anti-doping program, the question can change from "did the rider dope x years ago" to "is the rider doping today". OP will continue to haunt for some time, but if tainted riders are in a good testing regime that shows them to be clean, maybe there will be a better case to let them ride?

plectrum

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHA AHAHA AHAHA AHAHAHA, oh christ this is the funniest thing to happen in a long while.

You know why they are doing it, it is because Astana are cheats, Bruyneel is a cheat, Discovery were cheats, Armstrong was a cheat, Contador is a cheat.

I love this, enough is enough, stands are being taken and casualties occuring, yes they are all as guilty as each other but you can't ban everyone just those big enough to send shockwaves.

It will take a couple of years but I hope and pray cycling is on the road to recovery and can be seen as an example fo taking sports past doping.

Crankyfeet

Just bumping this thread cause I erroneously bumped the other one.

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Originally posted by Frigo's Luggage...

"[Calling him] 'dickcheese' is the insult of a master. Some people work in oil, some people work in clay. He [thoughtforfood] works in profanity. Open your mind and enjoy its beauty."

Bro Deal

Astana responds. They don't say much.

"We are stunned," said Astana spokesman Philippe Maertens.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM...syjuZy76aJ8YOcA

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates