CTL building strategies

Alex Simmons

Yeah - nice post.

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Terry Ferguson

Very interesting - thank you. I did not realize that the PCM chart used the pevious data to determine where to start. I thought that it would start at zero just like if there was no previous data. BTW - Entering the starting values of the day that you start does give the exact same numbers and graph as entering zeros. - TF

Porkyboy

Hi

I've attached my PMC for the last few months and would value any advice or input at all.

My current CTL is 62.4 which I've been steadily building at a rate of about 3 per week on a mixed diet of 2x20 minute SST and 60 minute L3 rides during the week, a longer L3 ride on a Saturday and a long L2 ride on a Sunday. I've adopted the no "formal" rest weeks strategy for the last 4 weeks or so and have ended up I feel with a more structured approach. I'm hoping that in the Spring I will end up better than I was last Spring, that's the plan!

Anyway, I had a bit of a setback last night and your thoughts would be appreciated. On 06.11.2007 I did my first FTP test using the exact recipe from the bible, I averaged 308W for the 20 minutes making my FTP at the time 292W. 2 months having passed I planned another FTP last night and during the 5 minute full on effort I did Ok but was struggling to hold the power I had managed 2 months ago but did raise it by 10W to 352W. When it came to the 20 minute TT I held my previous FTP initially thinking I'd be there or thereabouts and I was planning to increase the power if I could but I just crashed out and couldn't continue, I was unable to come close to my test of 2 months ago, it just didn't have what was needed in my legs, or anywhere else for that matter.

So, this was dispiriting, am I now less fit that I was in spite of 2 months of solid work or have I just lost my top end from the end of last year?

All advice greatly appreciated.

PBUK

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frenchyge

I think asking for better fitness in January than you had in June is a pretty tall order. I'd suggest that your tests should measure where you are rather than trying to beat a previous target and failing to complete the test at all. If your tested FTP is lower now, then so be it, but that's less discouraging than not even being able to complete the test and having to give up. Keep working.

Make sure you're rested when you attempt the test next.

Porkyboy

Hi

I'm sure you are right, unrealistic expectations based on ignorance. Sorry to have misled you with the date though, I'm in the UK and my last test was on 6th November 2007 not June, I forgot to switch the day and month.

Regards.

PBUK

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rmur17

well we're not robots. IIRC, there's a natural variation around 4% in our ability to produce power aerobically day-to-day. IMHO, that fact is one good reason not to get too hung up over tests.

Personally I don't do any specific FTP tests and simply use the power I can repeat workout to workout over the weeks and months to gauge progress. From my historical files, I *know* that whatever power I can hold indoors on my patented ergo workouts (30-40min duration), I can hold outdoors for 1-hr and thus that becomes FTP.

Now how has your working interval power progressed since November? IMHO, one should be doing efforts most of the year at or around FTP. If the power you're acheiving in those is going up ... well so must FTP. No increase in power? Then it's unlikely FTP is increasing.

Despite that, if you prefer a rigourous test --- you just may have been in a -4% day due to a myriad of reasons that I doubt anyone could fully explain. Could be as simple as residual exercise fatigue, could be work/family stress, could be a low-grade bug, could be improper eating/low glycogen stores.

So sorry if I'm beating it to death, I honestly don't see much reason for these structured tests. It's better, IMHO, to structure your training such that you fulfill one of Dr. Coggan's mantras: "Training is testing"

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frenchyge

No, my mistake. I did spot the DD.MM.YYYY convention on your chart, but it didn't click when I read your post.

No need to switch things because that's the way the Yanks do it.

Piotr

As promised, here's my updated chart. I "deseeded" the the starting values and it didn't change much. My weekly IF averages ranged from .717 to .831, and looking at weekly TSS totals (from 250 to 670), it doesn't seem I worked too hard. But then again to paraphrase Dr. Coggan, the less you train the less you can train . At a CTL of 60 perhaps doing 600+ TSS is a bit over-reaching.

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frenchyge

Based on the shapes of your ATL curve I expected to see some shorter rides, but I'm kinda struck by the number of short rides you have in there. Are those mainly your 2x20 workouts, or are they some active recovery rides? 25% of your rides are <65 TSS and another 25% are <90 TSS. I think that's really the reason your ATL/TSB doesn't spike up/down much.

A 2x20 workout at .9FTP gives about 65 TSS, but looking at your IFs I wonder if you're not too far down on the intensity-duration curve to be getting the best benefit from your SST. 1.5 hours at .85 IF gives 108 TSS, which seems like a pretty meat-and-potatoes SST workout to me (3x30 at .85FTP gives 125 TSS with w/u & c/d).


Perhaps, but at 60 CTL it takes (60+30)*7= 630 TSS in a week to generate a 5-CTL rise for the week. That's aggressive, but not extreme for most people. Maybe you could try reducing your ATL constant some to see if the ATL/TSB curves match your PE better.

Piotr

I initially intended to block my SST/L4 rides in three's (Tue, Wed, Thu) followed by a recovery ride, then harder weekends (Monday usually off). After I started feeling too fatigued or getting sick I decided to forgo the Wednesday SST ride in favor of a medium recovery ride (L2) of at most 90 min. Those may be the 60 TSS rides you're seeing. I also took a few Fridays completely off. This all stemmed from my fear of getting sick and demotivated... again. Like I mentioned before, I think I'm over that slump now I think. Though I wonder what effect on my training will next weekends team camp have (4 days of LSD). Perhaps that's a different discussion.

I think I started the season a bit too motivated. As I mentioned before I think the shorter rides with 2x20, 2x30, etc. did not suit me as well as I think a more typical 60-120 min L3/SST approach would have.

You just inspired an idea. It's a bit OT, but what if there was an arbitrary PE scale built into WKO+ for each ride. You'd rate your ride say 1-10 depending on how you felt. You could then juxtaposition the PE curve against the TSB curve to see whether the ATL time constant needed adjustment.

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frenchyge

That's probably what my weekly routine will look like later in the season when I'm wanting 600-800 TSS weeks, but not now (for me).

Not too far OT. I typically record some sensations about the workout in the notes section of the journal, for later reference if needed. A numerical PE scale would be good, but that's probably spreadsheet-land since WKO+ just released a new build. Probably a good idea for folks that find they're non-typical with regards how much TSS or ATL they respond to.

Alex Simmons

I have always thought that some user definable indexes would be very handy in WKO (and have made the suggestion in the past). So you could track a few others things like a ride rating, general well being, hours of sleep, that sort of thing. Flicking between that and a spreadsheet I suppose ain't that big a deal but when you are managing multiple riders....

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Piotr

Yes, I'm a little surprised your suggestion wasn't heeded, but now we have...(drumroll)... HR decoupling.

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vladav

It's a savy business decision:
CyclingPeaks = One time sale + Upgrade charges
TrainingPeaks = CashFlow, CashFlow, CashFlow

Who the hell would pay a regular fee for HR decoupling? Ergo CyclingPeaks "Upgrade(?)"

But the important stuff (above&beyond PerfMgr etc.) goes to TrainingPeaks where you have the privilige of regularly paying for it.