Bizarre interview with FL

C'dale Girl

Agreed as to your first two points.

Regarding the third, you are correct that I made huge assumptions that the rules would be similar as they are under WADA. I don't know that to be the case, as I haven't reviewed the particular rules at issue, but I suspect in the US you can't test the B sample under the US rules without first having a positive A sample. I could be completely wrong in that assumption.

Your very last sentence however goes to my very point. They suddenly realized they couldn't do it under the rules? Hence, my previous statement about lack of due process, which I stand by. Ad hoc application of rules, willy nilly, random and arbitrary . . . .

You can have all the rules in the world on paper establishing what is required in order to meet due process, but if you don't follow them, that doesn't mean you met due process requirements, simply because it is covered in the rules. The rules are there for a reason . . . to set the standard and to be followed.

We're really talking about two different things and I've kind of muddied the waters by melding them together. Ad hoc application of rules and due process. They are not the same and one really.

Crankyfeet

Its no wonder the cyclists are up in arms about WADA processes not being adhered to. They spend tens of thousands of dollars each year on doping in a way that is designed to avoid detection in the initial test. The whole game relies on the system following the rules. If authorities are going to willy nilly go to step B without passing through the hoops in step A... then their whole investment goes down the drain.

I can't believe when I hear the argument that after a positive IRMS test... the cyclist is bleating about the fact that they shouldn't have done the test at all based on the them not getting a trigger on the initial ratio test. It's like the guy who gets caught with all the drugs in his house and complains that the police were supposed to warn him they were coming around to look first.

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earth_dweller

There have been a lot of stories swirling around him the past 6 months especially. Not sure where his A sample come up positive and his B negative - was it at Superweek? or another crit? who knows.

However, USADA need to follow rules on this. If they truly believe that he doped and that B sample came up positive.. well they need to let it go. But test the hell of out all his samples at every race he goes to, he can be one of the 'random' testing. Make sure to dot the i and cross the t, because with this seemingly lack of following rules they are alienating the fans. They need to get the fans, and then the sponsors behind them and not against them.
Americans love to rail against 'the man' who is seemed as unjust, and this is just the opening they need.

Bro Deal

I wonder what Michael Ball's part in this is. He flat out denied that Kayle had tested positive. Was he in the dark? Did he know that there was no positive A sample so there would be no sanction?

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

C'dale Girl

EXACTLY!!!!! He's got a target on his back now. Test the shit out of him, but follow the friggin' rules so as to maintain your credibility and authority, so people will take you seriously and respect you and support you so that you can do your job more effectively through more funding, etc.

Bro Deal

I can go along with that. Let him walk. I was never too keen on FLandis' B samples getting tested.

It's like the authorities have never sat down and contemplated the various scenarios that could arise and then prepared for them. Instead they are making it up as they go along. I think it's a sign that they have never been serious about fighting doping.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

TheDarkLord

But that is true, isn't it? Keep chugging along as if everything is normal. When an opportunity arises, strike, and use it to give the impression that you are hell bent on beating the doping problem. The only problem is they make a balls up of the process and then make everyone look bad.

doctorSpoc

WRONG!!

neither Martha Stewart nor Marion Jones lied in courts of law... they lied to Federal Investigators which if you are found out will land you in a Penatentary doing real time as both have found out... lying in a court of law will likely not result in you doing time as would lying to the Feds....

so if the Feds comes a knocking, you better answer truthfull or get used to getting cosy with your new wife/cell mate i.e. a 250lb man named bubba.

C'dale Girl

Exactly what part of my post is wrong? I was discussing specifically lying in a court of law, in response to somebody else's post that inferring a difference between lying in a criminal and a civil legal proceeding. I didn't mention the feds at all. Yeah, obviously when it comes to punishment, it doesn't take rocket science to figure out there will be stiffer penalties if you lie to the feds than the muni court.

It's all right there in plain language. Read it.

Crankyfeet

I'm with C'dale Girl. Her point was valid. The whole Fed thing you are using as a contradiction wasn't even mentioned in her post. She was referring to perjury as being defined as a lie under oath in ANY COURT PROCEEDING... criminal or civil.

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kennf

Not to speak for doctorSpoc BUT, I think the point is, if you lie under oath to opposing counsel in a deposition or during trial in a civil court proceeding, the chances of getting pursued for perjury are virtually nil. But if you lie to federal prosecutors, you're playing with fire. At least, that's been my observation in my practice.

Crankyfeet

I agree... but C'dale Girl was talking about the law... not the motivations of the feds. Her point wasn't about the Feds and lying to them in private interviews.

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kennf

Yep.

doctorSpoc

A) in all likely hood lying in a criminal case will likely garner a stiffer punishment than in a civil case depending on the gravity of the case of course.. so you statement in the majority of cases will in fact be wrong.

B) but the larger issues is... why the hell wouldn't you just point the poster you responded to, to the point that no one in any of the cases mentioned int this thread lied under oath in civil or criminal cases... so his post and your response have about as much relevance to the issues at hand in this thread as the price of tea in china...

C) my main point wast to point out that the post you responded to and your response have about as much relevance to the cases in the thread as the price of tea in china and should be really be ignored... i just wanted to make it very plain for all to see, since some seemed confused and though that it might actually have some relevance to what was being talked about...