Consumer Warning!!

scotty72

Not trying to argue or accuse but, I tend to agree with Kakman's point of view.

Sure, if you're buying a bike that needs fitting, or even clothes that need trying on - or dare I say it, pedals that need 60secs of fitting - yes - I see a professional service factor - no arguments.

However, if I walk into your shop (and I have on many occasions) and I grab a tube (or a planet bike light) from the rack on the left as you walk in, take it to the counter and hand over the folding stuff - what service has there been? Granted - there is an element of someone has to put the tube on the self etc. But, if I find later that I could have got my items $8 or $15 dollars cheaper by ordering online if only I'd have spend an extra $8 or $15 by ordering online, I start to wonder about if people are fair-dinkum.

I wonder if people really want my business, or is my presence in a shop seen as such a business liability that you seemingly discourage me financially from entering your shop. Then again, inflated postage that suggests even writing my name on an evelope is such a trauma for you that you need to charge me a few bucks makes me wonder if you really even want me to do business with you.

I'm not just picking on CELL. In fact, I think CELL has been a wonderful thing that has shaken up the industry quite nicely. A lot of businesses treat customers in such a way that they feel unwelcome (ie. if I have to look at a customer's ugly face, I'm gonna charge them extra).

And if your customers think you actually like them in store - they'll come back.
If I am gonna be treated impersonally - Probikekit can treat me like shit cheaper than you can.

Just my thoughts.

__________________
www.bikenorth.org.au

2006 Scott Speedstar S10

kakman

I think you're missing the point - this isn't about me (besides, I have a fridge full of gu)

Let's put it another way, if someone does their research, walks into the shop knowing what they want, they get penalised with a higher price. Are you starting to see the problem? They've done exactly the same work as the internet buyer but have to pay more because they dared walk in the door of the store. Just as an aside, they might pay cash - something you can't do on the net - which would have saved you the CC commission.

Well, if it takes you 1-2 hours to discuss pedals or Gu...?? I mean, be a little bit fair dinkum. If they need to have lengthy discussion about a bike, we'll assume the higher price and margin on the bike would cover it - if not your business model is severely flawed.
A quick look at your site shows some knicks are only available online - seems I can't even try them on if I'm not sure about size. How much service goes into selling a pair of knicks?

So, I can come into the store, spend 2 hours with you and walk out of the shop with nothing. This is even more likely when you consider I may be able to go straight home and order it online from you (for less), or buy it somewhere else. You've still spent the time, you've just pi$$ed me off on the way. And it you don't tell me I can get it cheaper from you online, how pi$$ed am I going to be when I find out?

With respect, I think you're missing the bigger picture here. On you website you ask people why they didn't buy something - I'm just trying to tell you.

I hope you're showing this to John - you can always edit out the bits that might get your balls kicked. Never forget the old adage - the customer IS always right.

/k

kakman

No need to apologise for agreeing, I suspect we're right


If Cell want to be the Aussie PBK, all power to them - close the store and be an online business. The structure they have now is sufficiently twisted I find it hard to buy from them. Makes me almost want to go in and waste their time


A good business wants customer in the door where they can be properly upsold. This is the reason people say "we only quote RRP over the phone, you need to come into the store for the best price". As annoying as this can be, they're desperate to get people to come to the store because that's where the real 'selling' takes place.


Gold - tempted to rip that off for a sig.

/k

CELLbikes

Hey guys, cheers for your thoughts again!

God Bless PBK! I even buy stuff from them, however we've had some customers that come in saying that they've had bad warrantee issues with them, as you need to post things back to England and the turn around time may be lengthy.

If you're happy with PBK, then by all means by from them, however, if you disagree, perhaps you should check out Woolies wheels, go to their shop and ask for the online price.

Just to let you guys know, we may be expanding to a bigger and better shop where prices in store and online will be the same.

I very much value your input and hopefully it'll make us into the best store we can be. Since I've come on board, I've worked very hard to iron out the kinks of our business and thanks to your feedback, we'll get there eventually.

Also, we're not trying to be the Aussie PBK, as PBK does it so well, we're striving to be a combination of Anaconda/Rebel/Chain Reaction (UK). We're just trying to get people into cycling who have never cycled before or are returning to cycling after a long layoff.

Does anyone have any other feedback?

scotty72

Yeah, and I rarely buy stuff that is likely to be a warranty problem from them. Mostly, I get tubes, tyres, cassettes - that sort of stuff. Stuff that just is - wont be the wrong size or wont work properly. Computers, clothes etc. I will buy where I get to see, touch and take back if there is a prob. What I said about going into the shop and grabbing tubes is a case in point. If I'm told I need to pay more because my presence is a pain in the arse to the manager, I will say stuff it - PBK.

However, there are a few places where I actually feel welcomed. They talk to me, don't make me feel like I'm a burden. Sure the business model is different but, the feeling of being encouraged in is important.

I'm not going to give them a free plug (they don't pay me - where Dallas used to be). They are more pricey but I will still go in there to have a chat, see a tube and think, "geez, need a few of them - don't wanna wait 2 weeks from PBK." I buy, even though it is more $$$.

Yes, if I walked into CELL, I'd prob get it cheaper despite the fact it's the higher store price but, I still feel like Cell prefers not to see me.

Last time I walked into the other shop to "have a chat", I had my wife with me. She got chatting about tubes and tyres. The chat developed, she ended buying a $1600 bike. This is despite the fact that they are known as a little pricey (and were going to go everywhere else first try for a better price)

Wouldn't have happened on-line.

Woolies. I bought my SCOTT from them. Went back once thinking I could get a relationship with them - I thought they would value that. I went back to buy a spare set of cleats. I had the online / store price argument with them. I walked out - haven't been back. For about $4 (the difference), they lost me forever

Scotty

__________________
www.bikenorth.org.au

2006 Scott Speedstar S10

CELLbikes

Scott,

Have you ever been to our shop? If you feel unwelcome, what would change that?

I think we have some of the best salesmen in the business, who honestly care about what you purchase and will not upsell something to you if you don't need it.

If you haven't been to our shop, just come in and ask for Dallas, if he can't change your opinion of us, then we should just close down and let PBK run everything.

Also, I noticed if you said "ProBikeKit can treat me like shit cheaper than you can". Seems a bit negative. Hope we can change your feelings/opinion in the future.

"The Customer Is Always Right" is a great phrase, right along with "Always Listen to your Parents"

Hitchy

Pffft, 'the customer is always right', only applies if you can afford to let them 'be right'! & want their business!....as was alluded to earlier, the customer is generally price driven, despite a value that a retailer will place on their service, backup & reputation. If the retailer is happy to bastardize his margins so the customer can 'be right' then so be it. If he isn't, he shouldn't be demonised for trying to put food on his table. In any event, a customer is only a customer once a transaction has been agreed upon, before that he's a browser.

scotty72

Yes, as I've said, many times. I've bought (on separate occasions) gloves, tubes, a jersey, pedals, cleats (after storming out of Woolies) etc.

I didn't say I felt uncomfortable. I said the price differentiation gives the impression that people are unwelcome. When I found out the online price is cheaper, despite it took no staff any time to buy these items (other than take my money and issue a receipt) - I felt cheated. I'm sure I'm not alone here. Yes, the items were mostly cheaper than other stores but, my perception is that it is unfair, part of a scam, they want to charge me for breathing their special air, whatever.... Probably not, but perception is everything


Not an argument there. I know a few people who've bought bikes from Cell and they have commented that the bikes aren't the cheap crap some claim they are and that they felt looked after. But that was Kakman's point. If they are fitted to the bike, modifications are made, tyres are swapped etc., then that is the service component you speak of - I doubt anyone (other than those who buy a k-mart bike) would argue with that. In fact, the reason I went to Woolies to buy my bike was a friend told me they took a huge amount of time/effort measuring and doing stuff like customising stem lenghts etc. They were more expensive (a little) but I too was very pleased that they spent a good deal of time (over an hour) making sure the bike fit me, I was comfy etc.. I've long since thinking of the price because the bike has paid for itself 5 times over (in my mind at least). My point was about the cleats. I picked them up from the shelf no service.

I know Dallas fairly well, from his days at the other shop not too far along the train line from you. Occassionally get to ride with him. Next time I buy a bike - assuming it is a SCOTT and you still sell them, Dallas will be on the top of my go to list. (ok, I've sucked up enough).


I meant that people (incl me) know that whilst I can get stuff cheap from PBK, they are notorious for impersonal service. I was saying that penalising a customer for walking through the door seems very, very impersonal (and you miss the up-sell op too - I'm a sucker for that). If I feel the service is impersonal (discouraging me via a penalty), or I'm being slugged a service fee when it is not necessary to service me (eg. I walk in, grab tube, pay), then customers get peeved.

Except when they are being unreasonable shits.

Scotty

__________________
www.bikenorth.org.au

2006 Scott Speedstar S10

scotty72

Not sure about that.

For some things yes. Others, no.

Price is forgotten long after quality is remembered.

For a exact match that requires no service - PRICE. Even then, going PBK has its risks. It can take a long time and too often, they stuff the order up - and as said, if you need to return - BIG hassle.

Also, $18.99 post. You need to buy enough stuff to justify that.


But if you need service - you get what you pay for. If I've got a $3,000 bike, I don't want a cheap, quickie service. Nor do I want to waste my $$$ if it is ill-fitting and uncomfortable. Also, I don't want my jersey to arrive to discover they have made this year's sizes different to last year (been there before)

For the supermarket bike buyer - you're right.

For the type of person who would spend $1,000 + , I'm not so sure.

Scotty

__________________
www.bikenorth.org.au

2006 Scott Speedstar S10

flipper

Yeah I would too , what with staff working for free and everything...

__________________
"I think the only rule is that if someone is a big fat bastard its fairly safe to assume they aren't going to be pwning anyone on a climb" ~ classic1

scotty72

I always find that sarcasm helps to passify and solve issues.

Let's do the maths

The whole process of handing over the money and obtaining a receipt took no longer than 30 secs.

the price differential was (going by memory about $4)

So let's now calculate what you think bike shop sales staff are worth per hour.

there are 120 x 30 secs in an hour

120 x
4
====
$480

Gee, why become a Supreme Court barrister or a brain surgeon when being a bike shop sales guy is so much more lucrative?

__________________
www.bikenorth.org.au

2006 Scott Speedstar S10

CELLbikes

That's great maths Scotty, if that were true and worked out that way, we'd be laughin'.

Unfortunately there are times (worst case scenario) when someone is umming and aaahing for two hours (on a busy Saturday), have tried about 10 different bikes, have gotten you to adjust the stem, seatpost, pedals etc for all 10 of the bikes, have you break down the differences of each one ("since the rim on this one is 2mm wider, how does that impact performance"), has you change 3/4 different seats, has you fitting cleats to shoes they may or may not buy, gets up to the register, pulls out their wallet....and says "you know what, I'm going to have a think about it".

I'm not saying that customers don't deserve this kind of service, we are happy to do so, however, it's times like these that can be a bit frustrating. Am I wrong?

Also, am I mistaken in thinking that we have some of the best prices in Sydney? So low in fact that a large adventure gear chain in Auburn puts the squeeze on some of our suppliers to not supply to us.

sogood

+1!

In relation to the price differential b/n Cell's online vs in-store pricing, I think that's well within Cell's right to do so. It's just an issue of business model that they are trying to encourage and build their online business. Take it or leave it. Further, it's not meaningful to just consider the item cost for online purchases as P&H needs to be factored in to derive at the true cost.

Anyway, I have no problems with merchants having differential pricing b/n their online and in-store sales. Do what they like as long as it's clearly communicated to potential purchasers.

__________________
Morphed Bianchi Camaleonte IV 2006, Ridley Damocles 2006, Garmin, Mac

CELLbikes

I totally agree with that and soon we'll have the same prices online and in the shop (as we're rolling out a new website as well). So after that happens everything will be sweet, right?