Re: If you don't believe in Evolution, then why do you drive an SUV?

Tom Keats

In article <13okg8kd29ufc17@corp.supernews.com>,
"George Conklin" <nil@earthlink.net> writes:
>
> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
>> In article <t%Ngj.4940$O97.2830@trndny01>,
>> Stephen Harding <smharding16@msn.com> writes:
>> > donquijote1954 wrote:
>> >> On Jan 7, 5:09 pm, Stephen Harding <smhardin...@msn.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>George Conklin wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> If you are concerned with your health, you won't be riding a
> bicycle. Too
>> >>>>many accidents per mile.
>> >>>
>> >>>Like how many?
>> >>>
>> >>>Cite please.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> It's just a fear the system plants on you. It doesn't have to be real
>> >> though. Just enough so people give up bicycles and buy SUVs.
>> >
>> > That's a fair point.
>> >
>> > However I've come to believe people eschew bicycle commuting
>> > not so much because it's seen as a death wish, but more that
>> > such a view makes a convenient excuse.
>> >
>> > Let's face it, hopping in the dino-juice buggy can be awfully
>> > convenient!
>>
>> And on the other hand, there seems to be a perception among
>> a lot of people that cycling is just too inconvenient -- that
>> one must dress funny, "brave" the elements, and risk their
>> neck among motorized traffic. They don't realize it doesn't
>> have to be such a big deal.
>>
>>
>> cheers,
>> Tom
>
> In this climate, I would need a shower and chaning room in the buildings at
> work, since I would arrive totally 100% soaked through 8 months of the year.

I bet I live in a wetter climate than you.

With my riding raingear on, I stay much drier
than if I'd walked.

I don't need a shower. I'm a warehouse worker.
I'm gonna get sweaty anyways, unloading shipments
in marine containers from China to provide people
like you with your cheap crap.

> Also, a change of clothes and a place to wash them. So you would need
> locker rooms too.

People who ride to jobs where they need to be fresh
simply keep their fresh clothes at their worksites.
And they don't need a full-on shower. A quick refresher
at the washroom sink does the trick, perhaps along with
an application of their pit-stick of choice.

It's really easy and do-able.

Ride past the gas station you usualy stop at, and
thumb your nose at 'em. Maybe even give 'em a
Flatbush cheer, while sticking your thumbs in your
ears and waving all your fingers at 'em.

If you can ride no-handed.


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Tadej Brezina

George Conklin wrote:

> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>If people had to pay the true cost of motor vehicles, we would see a lot
>>more commuter cyclists.
>
> You have that totally backwards. Turning a 15 minute commute into a one
> and half hour commute at standard wage rates means that you are wasting
> several hours per day of productive work time, and you arrive at work
> exhausted to boot.

1. Since when does the alleged loss of "time" is being changed by the
billing rate? Time is time. That's not even backwards, that's totally
confused reasoning!
2. What you may consider as a alleged loss of work time, others would
consider in gained life-time due to increased physical fitness.
3. If one needs 1.5 hours by bike for the distance you commute by car in
0.25 hours, one should get his/her ass on a bike as quick as possible!
(An estimated - high! - avg. commuting speed of 50km/h makes 12.5km,
makes slightly above 8km/h avg. bike speed if traveled by bike in 1.5h)

Tadej
--
"Vergleich es mit einer Pflanze - die wächst auch nur dann gut, wenn du
sie nicht jeden zweiten Tag aus der Erde reißt, um nachzusehen, ob sie
schon Wurzeln geschlagen hat."
<Martina Diel in d.t.r>

Tom Keats

In article <8t6lo3pr6joh9u321uoiq9md34ogjc6vm7@4ax.com>,
"Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" <DwightSchrute@DunderMifflin.com> writes:

> Bicycle militants turn more people off than they convert to the joys
> of riding for actual transportation.

???

I don't think I've ever met a bicycle militant.
I've met lots of car militants, though.

I've even had a number of car militants aim at me, not
only while I was awheel, but also while I was afoot.

If there actually /are/ bicycle militants, car militants
are better-armed, just like the guys who shot the
war-protesting students at Kent State.

Car militants are a bunch of dangerous, self-centred,
anti-social mutton-heads.

Much more so than any bicycle militant ever could be.

Car militants turned me off of the notion of ever driving.

I guess it's just not in me to dive into a waller 'cuz
I covet the hawgs.

Anyways, "bicycle militant" is as oxymoronic as
"B'hai'an militant."

There /are/ anti-car militants who suggest bicycles as
an alternative form of transportation. But that's an
horse of a different colour. And I'll bet dollars to
donut holes a bunch of 'em don't even ride, or otherwise
put their money where their mouth is.


peace out,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Tadej Brezina

Tom Keats wrote:

> In article <13okg8kd29ufc17@corp.supernews.com>,
> "George Conklin" <nil@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>>"Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
>>
>>>In article <t%Ngj.4940$O97.2830@trndny01>,
>>>Stephen Harding <smharding16@msn.com> writes:
>>>
>>>>donquijote1954 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Jan 7, 5:09 pm, Stephen Harding <smhardin...@msn.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>George Conklin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you are concerned with your health, you won't be riding a
>>
>>bicycle. Too
>>
>>>>>>>many accidents per mile.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Like how many?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cite please.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It's just a fear the system plants on you. It doesn't have to be real
>>>>>though. Just enough so people give up bicycles and buy SUVs.
>>>>
>>>>That's a fair point.
>>>>
>>>>However I've come to believe people eschew bicycle commuting
>>>>not so much because it's seen as a death wish, but more that
>>>>such a view makes a convenient excuse.
>>>>
>>>>Let's face it, hopping in the dino-juice buggy can be awfully
>>>>convenient!
>>>
>>>And on the other hand, there seems to be a perception among
>>>a lot of people that cycling is just too inconvenient -- that
>>>one must dress funny, "brave" the elements, and risk their
>>>neck among motorized traffic. They don't realize it doesn't
>>>have to be such a big deal.
>>>
>>>
>>>cheers,
>>>Tom
>>
>>In this climate, I would need a shower and chaning room in the buildings at
>>work, since I would arrive totally 100% soaked through 8 months of the year.
>
>
> I bet I live in a wetter climate than you.
>
> With my riding raingear on, I stay much drier
> than if I'd walked.
>
> I don't need a shower. I'm a warehouse worker.
> I'm gonna get sweaty anyways, unloading shipments
> in marine containers from China to provide people
> like you with your cheap crap.
>
>
>>Also, a change of clothes and a place to wash them. So you would need
>>locker rooms too.
>
>
> People who ride to jobs where they need to be fresh
> simply keep their fresh clothes at their worksites.
> And they don't need a full-on shower. A quick refresher
> at the washroom sink does the trick, perhaps along with
> an application of their pit-stick of choice.
>
> It's really easy and do-able.
>
> Ride past the gas station you usualy stop at, and
> thumb your nose at 'em. Maybe even give 'em a
> Flatbush cheer, while sticking your thumbs in your
> ears and waving all your fingers at 'em.
>
> If you can ride no-handed.

I guess it's not that risky riding free-handed if George's avg. cycling
speed is 8km/h!*) ;-)

Tadej
*) See previous message in this thread!
--
"Vergleich es mit einer Pflanze - die wächst auch nur dann gut, wenn du
sie nicht jeden zweiten Tag aus der Erde reißt, um nachzusehen, ob sie
schon Wurzeln geschlagen hat."
<Martina Diel in d.t.r>

Tadej Brezina

George Conklin wrote:

> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>
>>Oh please. In the US, people do NOT pay directly for the true cost, but
>>it is hidden in other expenses.
>
>
> The true cost of riding a bicycle is huge, and hidden by nonsense posted
> here.

What do YOU consider huge? Bigger or still smaller than that of other
means of transport like private cars, public transport, etc.?

Tadej
--
"Vergleich es mit einer Pflanze - die wächst auch nur dann gut, wenn du
sie nicht jeden zweiten Tag aus der Erde reißt, um nachzusehen, ob sie
schon Wurzeln geschlagen hat."
<Martina Diel in d.t.r>

Tom Sherman

Tadej Brezina wrote:
> ...
> 3. If one needs 1.5 hours by bike for the distance you commute by car in
> 0.25 hours, one should get his/her ass on a bike as quick as possible!
> (An estimated - high! - avg. commuting speed of 50km/h makes 12.5km,
> makes slightly above 8km/h avg. bike speed if traveled by bike in 1.5h)

Well, I used to have a 25 km commute, with an average speed of over 90
kph, but that is unusual.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

Tadej Brezina

Tom Sherman wrote:

> Tadej Brezina wrote:
>
>> ...
>> 3. If one needs 1.5 hours by bike for the distance you commute by car
>> in 0.25 hours, one should get his/her ass on a bike as quick as possible!
>> (An estimated - high! - avg. commuting speed of 50km/h makes 12.5km,
>> makes slightly above 8km/h avg. bike speed if traveled by bike in 1.5h)
>
>
> Well, I used to have a 25 km commute, with an average speed of over 90
> kph, but that is unusual.

Door to door?
In a city or agglomeration?
At usual commuting times?

That is really fairly unusal!
Tadej
--
"Vergleich es mit einer Pflanze - die wächst auch nur dann gut, wenn du
sie nicht jeden zweiten Tag aus der Erde reißt, um nachzusehen, ob sie
schon Wurzeln geschlagen hat."
<Martina Diel in d.t.r>

Tom Sherman

Tadej Brezina wrote:
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>
>> Tadej Brezina wrote:
>>
>>> ...
>>> 3. If one needs 1.5 hours by bike for the distance you commute by car
>>> in 0.25 hours, one should get his/her ass on a bike as quick as
>>> possible!
>>> (An estimated - high! - avg. commuting speed of 50km/h makes 12.5km,
>>> makes slightly above 8km/h avg. bike speed if traveled by bike in 1.5h)
>>
>>
>> Well, I used to have a 25 km commute, with an average speed of over 90
>> kph, but that is unusual.
>
> Door to door?
> In a city or agglomeration?
> At usual commuting times?
>
> That is really fairly unusal!
>
I lived very near an interchange to a controlled access highway, and
work was also very near an interchange. For most of the trip my speed
was in the 105 to 115 kph range.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

George Conklin

"Amy Blankenship" <Amy_nospam@magnoliamultimedia.com> wrote in message
news:%izij.42469$L27.18889@bignews9.bellsouth.net...
>
> "George Conklin" <nil@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:13ol66rfaarjb3@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> >> Oh please. In the US, people do NOT pay directly for the true cost, but
> >> it is hidden in other expenses.
> >
> > The true cost of riding a bicycle is huge, and hidden by nonsense posted
> > here.
>
> True. If more people biked more, the medical industry could potentially
> lose millions.
>
>

Broken legs would make up the difference quickly. Bicycles are dangerous on
a per-mile basis.

George Conklin

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fmefth$o9h$3@registered.motzarella.org...
> George Conklin wrote:
> > "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:fmdn14$4pr$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> >> Jack May wrote:
> >>> "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:fmdh8q$7su$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> >>>> George Conklin wrote:
> >>>>> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>> news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
> >>>> Showers and lockers could be provided for less than the cost of
"free"
> >>>> parking, when the externalities are accounted for.
> >>> A company needs "free" parking to be able to attract the people they
> > want to
> >>> hire. Very few people ride a bike to work. Showers and lockers are
> > still
> >>> installed these days for people that exercise at work.
> >>>
> >> Pretty poor excuse for a society then, eh?
> >>
> >> If people had to pay the true cost of motor vehicles, we would see a
lot
> >> more commuter cyclists.
> >>
> > You have that totally backwards. Turning a 15 minute commute into a
one
> > and half hour commute at standard wage rates means that you are wasting
> > several hours per day of productive work time, and you arrive at work
> > exhausted to boot.
> >
> Nonsense. Riding a bicycle is fun! Regular exercise makes a person LESS
> tired.
>
> Get out of your cage!

Exercise is supposed to make you tired.

George Conklin

"Tadej Brezina" <tadej_usenet@gmx.at> wrote in message
news:478b1a13$0$11610$3b214f66@tunews.univie.ac.at...
> George Conklin wrote:
>
> > "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>If people had to pay the true cost of motor vehicles, we would see a lot
> >>more commuter cyclists.
> >
> > You have that totally backwards. Turning a 15 minute commute into a
one
> > and half hour commute at standard wage rates means that you are wasting
> > several hours per day of productive work time, and you arrive at work
> > exhausted to boot.
>
> 1. Since when does the alleged loss of "time" is being changed by the
> billing rate? Time is time. That's not even backwards, that's totally
> confused reasoning!

If you bill by the hour, then loss of time is loss of income. Otherwise,
you lose time you could spend fixing the house, mowing the lawn, and so
forth. It is a very important issue.

George Conklin

"Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fmeg11$o9h$4@registered.motzarella.org...
> George Conklin wrote:
> > "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:fmdh8q$7su$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> >> George Conklin wrote:
> >>> "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>> news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
> >>>> ...
> >>>> And on the other hand, there seems to be a perception among
> >>>> a lot of people that cycling is just too inconvenient -- that
> >>>> one must dress funny, "brave" the elements, and risk their
> >>>> neck among motorized traffic. They don't realize it doesn't
> >>>> have to be such a big deal.
> >>>>
> >>> In this climate, I would need a shower and chaning room in the
buildings
> > at
> >>> work, since I would arrive totally 100% soaked through 8 months of the
> > year.
> >>> Also, a change of clothes and a place to wash them. So you would need
> >>> locker rooms too.
> >> Showers and lockers could be provided for less than the cost of "free"
> >> parking, when the externalities are accounted for.
> >
> > So who gets free parking? And those externalities are infinite if
you
> > are one of those bicycle militants.
> >
> Every place I have ever worked at has had an employee parking lot.

Many such lots are NOT free. They charge employees to come to work, thus
taking back their wage.

George Conklin

"Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9jremf.321.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
> In article <13okg8kd29ufc17@corp.supernews.com>,
> "George Conklin" <nil@earthlink.net> writes:
> >
> > "Tom Keats" <tkeats2005@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:6p4cmf.6d3.ln@vcn.bc.ca...
> >> In article <t%Ngj.4940$O97.2830@trndny01>,
> >> Stephen Harding <smharding16@msn.com> writes:
> >> > donquijote1954 wrote:
> >> >> On Jan 7, 5:09 pm, Stephen Harding <smhardin...@msn.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>George Conklin wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> If you are concerned with your health, you won't be riding a
> > bicycle. Too
> >> >>>>many accidents per mile.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Like how many?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Cite please.
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> It's just a fear the system plants on you. It doesn't have to be
real
> >> >> though. Just enough so people give up bicycles and buy SUVs.
> >> >
> >> > That's a fair point.
> >> >
> >> > However I've come to believe people eschew bicycle commuting
> >> > not so much because it's seen as a death wish, but more that
> >> > such a view makes a convenient excuse.
> >> >
> >> > Let's face it, hopping in the dino-juice buggy can be awfully
> >> > convenient!
> >>
> >> And on the other hand, there seems to be a perception among
> >> a lot of people that cycling is just too inconvenient -- that
> >> one must dress funny, "brave" the elements, and risk their
> >> neck among motorized traffic. They don't realize it doesn't
> >> have to be such a big deal.
> >>
> >>
> >> cheers,
> >> Tom
> >
> > In this climate, I would need a shower and chaning room in the buildings
at
> > work, since I would arrive totally 100% soaked through 8 months of the
year.
>
> I bet I live in a wetter climate than you.
>
> With my riding raingear on, I stay much drier
> than if I'd walked.
>

If you used raingear around here, you would arrive at work even more
soaked through and you would need to wash the raingrear to get the sweat
out.


> I don't need a shower. I'm a warehouse worker.
> I'm gonna get sweaty anyways, unloading shipments
> in marine containers from China to provide people
> like you with your cheap crap.
>
> > Also, a change of clothes and a place to wash them. So you would need
> > locker rooms too.
>
> People who ride to jobs where they need to be fresh
> simply keep their fresh clothes at their worksites.
> And they don't need a full-on shower. A quick refresher
> at the washroom sink does the trick, perhaps along with
> an application of their pit-stick of choice.
>
> It's really easy and do-able.
>
> Ride past the gas station you usualy stop at, and
> thumb your nose at 'em. Maybe even give 'em a
> Flatbush cheer, while sticking your thumbs in your
> ears and waving all your fingers at 'em.
>
> If you can ride no-handed.
>
>
> --
> Nothing is safe from me.
> I'm really at:
> tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Amy Blankenship

"George Conklin" <nil@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13omossgvlm493e@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Tadej Brezina" <tadej_usenet@gmx.at> wrote in message
> news:478b1a13$0$11610$3b214f66@tunews.univie.ac.at...
>> George Conklin wrote:
>>
>> > "Tom Sherman" <sunsetss0003@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >>If people had to pay the true cost of motor vehicles, we would see a
>> >>lot
>> >>more commuter cyclists.
>> >
>> > You have that totally backwards. Turning a 15 minute commute into a
> one
>> > and half hour commute at standard wage rates means that you are wasting
>> > several hours per day of productive work time, and you arrive at work
>> > exhausted to boot.
>>
>> 1. Since when does the alleged loss of "time" is being changed by the
>> billing rate? Time is time. That's not even backwards, that's totally
>> confused reasoning!
>
> If you bill by the hour, then loss of time is loss of income.
> Otherwise,
> you lose time you could spend fixing the house, mowing the lawn, and so
> forth. It is a very important issue.

If you die early because you're a big fat blob, not only do you lose any
time you could have spent fixing the house, etc., but your family loses your
future earnings and has to pay to bury you (assuming that death is instant
and you don't spend 6 months in the hospital---if that is the case then it
will be even more expensive).