Crap respsonse from Connex about bikes on trains.

DJ

"Zebee Johnstone" <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnfo0jup.k4d.zebeej@gmail.com...
> In aus.bicycle on Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:39:34 GMT
> Liz <liz@chows.com> wrote:
>> I don't know about Victoria, but in Sydney there's no special rule and
>> it's
>> pretty much at the discretion of whatever rail staff you happen to come
>> across. My husband and I both independantly asked the helpline and both
>
> to quote:
>
> Bicycles - standard, folding and disassembled - travel free in
> non-peak periods. You will need to purchase a child ticket as well as
> your own if you wish to travel with a bicycle between the hours of
> 6.00am and 9.00am and 3.30pm and 7.30pm on weekdays.
>
> to me that makes it clear that a "bicycle" includes a folding one,
> even folded. So presumably a large backpack is OK but a folder in a
> bag is not... It also appears that a bike in a bike bag or box is
> also banned on peak hours, but a bar fridge would be OK.
>
> I suspect that most staff would not care about a folder in a bag, but
> might care about one out of a bag.
>
> I have been asked to show a 2nd ticket for the 'bent towards the end
> of evening peak, but being a disgustingly law abiding type I had
> bought one.
>
> Zebee

I remember one weekend i took my bicycle on the train from Mac Flds to the
city(Syd) and got chatting to 2 of those city rail ticket checkers on the
train going in and i was telling them about BUGs and what they do and some
of the rides we go etc etc and kept them chatting untill we got to
Kingsgrove where they got off to go back on another train...they didn't even
ask if i had a ticket for myself let alone the bike...mmm good diversion i
thought....

But yeah, in the peak time in Sydney you just buy a child ticket for the
bike then no probs usually except you might get a few growls from passengers
in a packed carriage....i had one guy say to me one night "why don't you
ride the f'ing thing home"? and I said "why don't you walk home? he shut up
then....it helps when you don't reply with obsenities back as it makes you
look better than those who do...sometimes!! lol

I must say though, i wouldn't mind betting that some day soon if the petrol
prices go higher and higher and more people opt for the train that cityrail
could bring in the 'no bikes in peaktime' policy..wouldn't put it past them.

DJ

G-S

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
>>> It's like on a bus, at no time are bicycles allowed on a bus due to the
>>> tight confines of that type of vehicle.
>> Yes, but they can be carried on external rails vis. Brisbane and Canberra
>> buses
>
> How many? And how much time does it take to insert and remove?
> Should other passengers have to wait?
>
> Zebee

I've been researching these... it's my estimate that we have sufficient
'slack time' in our timetables not to need to alter them.

ie buses currently wait at main stops (waste time) in order not to be early.

That is the case with a fair proportion of rural/suburban services down
in Vic... not sure about NSW though, and it isn't the case in inner city
areas either.


G-S

beerwolf

Liz wrote:

.... snip

>> What about folding bikes that pack into the size of a suit case are these
>> banned as well ?
>>
>> If not riders that are affected by this might want to think about the
>> folding options.
>>
>
> I don't know about Victoria, but in Sydney there's no special rule and
> it's pretty much at the discretion of whatever rail staff you happen to
> come across. My husband and I both independantly asked the helpline and
> both times the person who answered had to ask their supervisor and came
> back with the answer that if you can pick it up and carry it, it counts as
> luggage (we didn't point out that you can actually pick up and carry an
> unfolded bike). However, one particular ticket seller insisted on my
> buying an extra ticket for the bike, despite being told this, pretty much
> on the grounds of "a bike's a bike".

I rarely use public transport these days; however if I ever find myself
in the position of wanting to take my folding bike on a train in Sydney
peak hour, I fully intend to *not* purchase a ticket, and if the transit
police issue a fine, I fully intend to contest it through the courts. I
think
there is an arguable case that a folding bike (in a bag) is not a bike.

Getting back to the original topic, I've spent the last 3 months living
and working in Melbourne, commuting 30km both ways each day
with one exception when I used the train. The trip home that day was
enough to convince me that almost anything would be preferable to
a peak hour train trip in Melbourne, with or without a bike.
That 'almost anything' arrived just before Christmas, when a severe
afternoon thunderstorm sent me to Parliament station with my bike
for the trip home. I would have happily paid a quadruple fare; luckily
the train had enough space for both of us, and the bike was free.

I can see both side of the issue too - I think any lobbying should
encompass a willingness to pay a surcharge of some kind for the bike.

--
beerwolf

DJ

"G-S" <geoff@castbus.com.au> wrote in message
news:13o12prolvglm72@corp.supernews.com...
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>
>>>> It's like on a bus, at no time are bicycles allowed on a bus due to the
>>>> tight confines of that type of vehicle.
>>> Yes, but they can be carried on external rails vis. Brisbane and
>>> Canberra buses
>>
>> How many? And how much time does it take to insert and remove?
>> Should other passengers have to wait?
>>
>> Zebee
>
> I've been researching these... it's my estimate that we have sufficient
> 'slack time' in our timetables not to need to alter them.
>
> ie buses currently wait at main stops (waste time) in order not to be
> early.
>
> That is the case with a fair proportion of rural/suburban services down in
> Vic... not sure about NSW though, and it isn't the case in inner city
> areas either.
>
>
> G-S


That may well be in the slack periods early in the morning (first services)
and late in the evening (after 7.30pm or 8pm) and on some holiday periods
like it is right now but generally in my experience having been a Sydney
Buses driver for 18 years (not at the moment though) in those above
mentioned times, they tend to tighten up the timetable so they can get more
trips in per operating bus for eg. instead of doing 2 round trips in/out of
city per half shift, they'll be timetabling for 3 round trips.

I was up in Brisbane for 9 months recently and in that whole time i think i
seen 2 bikes on those front racks so i don't know if they have been a paying
proposition.
I think people have to realise that with buses, they try to cater for most
of the travelling public but it's bloody hard trying to cater for all
purposes.
I know when they first bought out those low floor wheelchair buses about 7
years ago, i think i have carried about 6 wheelchair passengers in 5 years.

DJ

Zebee Johnstone

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 6 Jan 2008 20:13:29 +1100
DJ <mrjay1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> I know when they first bought out those low floor wheelchair buses about 7
> years ago, i think i have carried about 6 wheelchair passengers in 5 years.

I've seen elderly passengers being quite thankful for those. Ditto
people with prams.

Long ago when I was young, Perth buses used to carry prams on racks on
the back of the bus. They stopped it, I believe because of the hassle
the drivers had doing the loading and unloading as not all pram owners
could manage it.

When I was working in North Sydney I used to take the train home if I
was late home of an evening and couldn't be arsed facing the hills.

No point trying to get the bike on in peak hour though!

I expect the 'bent wouldn't fit on a bus bicycle rack anyway.

Zebee

G-S

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Sun, 6 Jan 2008 20:13:29 +1100
> DJ <mrjay1@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> I know when they first bought out those low floor wheelchair buses about 7
>> years ago, i think i have carried about 6 wheelchair passengers in 5 years.
>
> I've seen elderly passengers being quite thankful for those. Ditto
> people with prams.
>
> Long ago when I was young, Perth buses used to carry prams on racks on
> the back of the bus. They stopped it, I believe because of the hassle
> the drivers had doing the loading and unloading as not all pram owners
> could manage it.
>
> When I was working in North Sydney I used to take the train home if I
> was late home of an evening and couldn't be arsed facing the hills.
>
> No point trying to get the bike on in peak hour though!
>
> I expect the 'bent wouldn't fit on a bus bicycle rack anyway.
>
> Zebee

Spot on Zebee... our feedback is that marginally mobile older passengers
(off peak mostly) absolutely love the newer low floor buses, and so do
mums with prams.

None of that is very relevant to peak hour bus usage, but that isn't the
pattern encountered with outer suburban/rural bus services anyway.

And as far as I can tell some bents would fit but others would not; long
wheelbase ones definitely not (the racks can after all be no wider than
a bus) but shorter wheelbase/larger wheel types should be ok.


G-S

TimC

On 2008-01-06, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> to me that makes it clear that a "bicycle" includes a folding one,
> even folded. So presumably a large backpack is OK but a folder in a
> bag is not... It also appears that a bike in a bike bag or box is
> also banned on peak hours, but a bar fridge would be OK.

Ahhh, Chasers, how I love thee.

--
TimC
I'm sorry. The number you have reached is imaginary. Please rotate your
phone 90 degrees and try again. -- MIT's phone switch

EuanB

IMO Nepean Highway is not only quicker, it's much safer.

I've ridden the Bay trail, the sight lines are poor and there's way too many intersections where priority is not recognised. Add in joggers, dog walkers etc etc and it can be an unpredictable enviornment compared to the road.

PeteSig

"Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Sun, 06 Jan 2008 00:51:23 GMT
> PeteSig <petesig@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>
>> "DJ" wrote:
>>>
>>> carriage and someone gets on the train with a wet bike with some mud
>>> splashed up the side of it or just dirty water from the roads, rubbed up
>>> against your suit or workclothes,
>>
>> And say you had a need to take your bike on a train, and had chosen a
>> carriage that was not packed full?? And the bike was clean?
>
> Except that the reason they are banned is because they are full.

But often they are NOT. Eg. before 4.30pm and after 6.00pm. But the ban
still applies.
>
> Will you have an inspector who will check bikes for cleanliness before
> they are allowed on? Will you agree that if there are more than X
> people on the train at any one time all cyclists are thrown off at the
> next station?

No. Leave it up to reasonable people to make a sensible decision. Like they
will with pram-users/people with lots of luggage.

>> One thing all our crap train carriages lack is overhead straps and rails,
>> so
>> that stops and starts are not such a threat. Why blame the cyclist? We
>> had
>> plenty of straps and open spaces in the old carriages of the 70s and 80s.
>
> OPen spaces are usually about lack of people. What's the population
> of the city and the numbers using trains now compared to them?

No, open spaces, where there were no seats. Standing room, with straps to
hold onto. FAR more people can be accomodated with standing room, and in
off-peak there's still more than enough seats, and space to carry bikes out
of the doorways. Talk to travellers overseas - most of the mass rail systems
in NY, Tokyo, London have carriages with standing spaces, some are almost
all standing room with only seats along the sides of the carriages.

And yes, bikes may well be banned there, but these cities have much greater
population densities and PT use. Personally I think the idea of paying a
concession fare for a bike in peak periods was a good one. But this was
dropped by the Met, for some reason. Maybe too hard to police ??


--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

Zebee Johnstone

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 07 Jan 2008 06:12:12 GMT
PeteSig <petesig@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> "Zebee Johnstone" wrote:
>> Except that the reason they are banned is because they are full.
>
> But often they are NOT. Eg. before 4.30pm and after 6.00pm. But the ban
> still applies.

The problem is that sometimes they are.

>>
>> Will you have an inspector who will check bikes for cleanliness before
>> they are allowed on? Will you agree that if there are more than X
>> people on the train at any one time all cyclists are thrown off at the
>> next station?
>
> No. Leave it up to reasonable people to make a sensible decision. Like they
> will with pram-users/people with lots of luggage.

Do they? NOt in my experience.

People are selfish. Some people will not be too selfish, some will.
And unclear rules lead to arguments and anger.


HOw much will new carriages cost, and who will pay?

Zebee

Theo Bekkers

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

> HOw much will new carriages cost, and who will pay?

Don't you have a 8 car limit on Sydney trains now because of the length of
the platforms. Adding a car to the train will be very, very expensive. On
the two-tier cars you will have to store the bike on the
level-with-the-platform section. Extending this area will reduce the
passenger capacity of the car.

"Yes Sir/Madam, you may take the velocipede on the train, please buy five
normal tickets and use the rear of car 6."

Or is the group concensus that the other passengers help pay for the bike's
transport? Why?

Theo

EuanB

Same reason I contribute the same amount of tax to the upkeep of roads and use an eigth of the space, additionally contributing nothing to wear and tear?

PeteSig

"Theo Bekkers" <tbekkers@bekkers.com.au> wrote in message
news:4782aeef$1@news.bekkers.com.au...
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>

People who reply to this issue from outer fringe Perth or Sydney's tunnels
and double-deckers need to get a grip and realise this is a Victorian issue.
If you aren't very familiar with the Melbourne and Victorian PT system you
may be talking rubbish.

We don't need to build new trains or add carriages. We don't need to extend
platforms. The trains are 6 car sets and don't need to be made any longer.
And all carriages are 'level with the platform'.

The cost to rejig the interior layout of carriages to allow some open areas
that enble standing room (like there was in the early 80s) is going to be
relatively low (compared to bulding new rolling stock... or constructing 1
or 2 kms of the Eastlink tollway). And it will actually enable *more
passengers* to travel. as seated space takes up much more room. Standing
passengers can cram in much more in the peak.

Providing space for more people, that can also enable people to take bikes
on board will help the transport system earn more revenue, not less.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

cfsmtb

And here's a terrific example someone prepared earlier:
http://alansnel.com/blog/2007/08/re...inneapolis.html

BTW, don't you love the good cop, bad cop comedy routine being played out in the media today by Kosky and Hull? The whole reprieve thing was complete bollox & PR spin anyway, as the changes haven't been gazetted yet. Imagine spinning the 'grace' period as a reprieve when it actual fact the government haven't done the changes yet.

Fig A - Morning
http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...9554571397.html

Fig B - Afternoon
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/st...28-2862,00.html

Read a interpretation about 'Bike Bans on Trains in Victoria 1st January, 2008 - Frequently asked Questions' here:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/2hkst3

And if the thought 'Oh dear, someone should do something about it' has crossed your mind, here's another link to get you started:
http://modernthings.org/binthebikeban/