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snood

The lawyers like the really dumb dopers and fans that give them money.

cyclingheroes

Some are protected, some are not. Phonak wasn't, Astana wasn't.

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Bro Deal

Are you ever going to elaborate? Can't you creat another account and post info under a different name.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Gregers

Have you ever done that kind of thing anywhere, Bro?

Crankyfeet

Its pretty obvious what he's getting at. Protection money...right? But what I can't understand is why Astana couldn't pay to be untouchable? Surely the oil boys in Astana have handled a few backhanders in their time?

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cyclingheroes

Ofcourse they could pay, they could take over the whole store....

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Bro Deal

It doesn't necessarily have to be money, but it would not surprise me if it was. It could be as simple as friendships between people within the UCI and some teams. It could be that some national federations give their teams a heads up on random testing. It could be sort of a systemic thing where the whole testing system is leaky and people share info as a matter of professional courtesy; if you are unlucky enough to be out of the loop then you are screwed.

I have said before that I have not seen a smoking gun on this. There have been a number of coincidences over the years that make you wonder about things. Several sources have said that they were given advance warning on random testing, but that does not have to equal teams being favored at the expense of other teams.

It would be nice if CH would give a few hints about the actual mechanism of corruption.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

Gregers

That's right, Crank. I imagine that the majority of teams, including Astana, would have the means to pay if that is what is required to be 'protected'. So why is Heroes implying that specific teams are looked after whilst others are not? What does it require to be given a free pass?
If Heroes doesn't wish to associate himself with it directly, I wonder if he might consider PMing this info to a trusted confidante and filter it out tangentially.

thunder

it is in the UCI's interest to catch some, as scapegoats for all that get a tip off and free pass.

Leukemans and Lotz pay for Boonen's pass.

etc etc

Bro Deal

Here is a guess: Back in the day when the doping issue was starting to be taken more seriously, teams cultivated sources within the testing framework, giving money for their help. This eventually changed from teams seeking out sources to pay to sources seeking teams to pay to sources not being happy with teams that did not pay. Eventually you have a situation of institutionalized corruption.

There is a little problem though. In order to shake down a team, you need someone to deal with. For teams with internal doping programs this is not a problem. For teams where the management has left the riders to fend for themselves there is no one to deal with.

Phonak and Astana were both run by the same outfit, we can assume that they ran the two teams the same way. So even though the Kazakhs have the money to pay, there was no one in the team management to pass it along to the UCI.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

thunder

no, the UCI just had it in for Rhis Biver Rominger and the Swiss guys. For some reason.

TheDarkLord

That is so similar to what FL is doing. Maybe the only thing left for Hamilton to do is to write a book on why he is innocent.

Crankyfeet

Well its easy to understand why the UCI would view Boonen and Contador as worthy and protected pin-up boys for cycling, while seeing Rasmussen and a few expendable domestiques as scapegoats.

So Floyd must have really pissed them off.

I still wonder though how much control they have over massaging the lab results. I could see them being able to warn certain parties of impending random tests, but they can't warn them of when they're going to win.

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TheDarkLord

I remember seeing a post earlier (maybe by Lim?) on how exactly FL pissed off UCI.