Any fitters in this forum?

Sillyoldtwit

I got exactly the same impression, but I'm no expert. Tyson

__________________

curby

Quick observation... when I tip my monitor 6 or so degrees up at its right edge your position doesnt look so far back from the side view. I think the video was playing tricks on my eyes before that.

Also the width and drop of the handlebars look too great to me...

serpico7

Not sure about the side view, but the front view angle definitely makes the bars look too wide, but in person, my arms are coming straight out from my shoulders to the bars. Next time I do a video, I'll try to adjust the angle to better show my shoulders and bars.

daveryanwyoming

Do you have unusually long femurs and/or is that an unusually small bike you're riding? It looks to me like you need those wide bars or you'd hit your forearms with your knees while riding in the drops. Is you saddle set so far back in an attempt to make a very small frame fit better? Even in the drops you look crunched up with a round back instead of comfortably stretched.

Video is tough and maybe it's just camera angles but it sure looks to me like you're squeezed onto a very small frame and sitting really far back. The rise stem and number of spacers in your stack also make it look like the frame is awfully small for you. Did your fitter drop your saddle after bringing your bars up as much as practically possible rather than pushing for a larger frame?

FWIW, pain in the front of the knee is usually linked to a low saddle, poor cleat position, non floating cleats or pronounced pronation/supination. Since you're using Lemond wedges it sounds like you've looked into the pronation/supination issues, but are you riding cleats with float? And is your saddle height set to any of the canned formulas or roughly as high as you can go before you get into hip rocking or excessive reaching on the downstroke? Knee angle measurements are tough to do without a goniometer and someone skilled in its use.

-Dave

serpico7

My legs are long for my height. 170cm total height; 84.5cm cycling inseam. Not sure if my femurs are long relative to my lower leg. The bike is a size 54 with a 53.5cm virtual top tube.

This isn't the bike I was fit on, but the saddle setback from the bottom bracket is 6cm, which is how the fitter set me up on the old bike. I would hope he determined the setback solely based on positioning my legs correctly relative to the bottom bracket, and NOT because of where he wanted my upper body to be.

The crunched up look is more because I'm not riding with my pelvis tilted forward, so my back has to bend more. I've been working on flexibility, so since the time I made that video, I tilt a bit more at the pelvis. Also, I swapped out the 100mm stem in the video for a 120mm stem.

Regarding the stack height: I recently built this bike, so I wanted to try riding with a very small drop from saddle to bars (2cm) before cutting down the steerer. The fitter had me set up with 8cm of drop on my old bike - way too much for me. The 2cm drop is soooo much more comfortable. With 8cm of drop, I didn't have any bend in my elbows and my shoulders/upper back/neck were taking a pounding. As I get more flexible, I can reduce the stack height, but right now it feels pretty good.

I shimmed with varus wedges because my knees move closer to the top tube at the top of the stroke (as can be seen in the video clip without the shims). I shimmed the right knee more because that's the one that hurts. My left knee also moves towards the top tube, but it doesn't hurt (well, not as much as the right knee anyway). The knee pain is sort of front/medial.

I'm using grey Keo cleats, so 4.5* float. The saddle height is ~1cm lower than my fitter had it set. This is because with the higher setting my lower back would hurt. But since then I've improved hamstring flexibility so I could probably raise the saddle up 1cm without low back pain - that is, if the saddle looks too low.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback thus far. Depending on the consensus amongst those with some fitting experience (either on themselves or others), I'm happy to make the changes and redo the video with the new position (assuming it doesn't hurt right off the cuff).

rwinthenorth

It seems like we all have a general consensus regardless of camera angle: it looks like your stretching your legs to far forward, the saddle is set back a little to far to the peddle ratio. Even if the 6cm is the same ratio as your fit, I'm guessing your bike geometry is different and this could be making all the difference. I still think your pinching your hamstrings and stressing the knee trying to reach around the pedal stroke. Try: 1.sliding the saddle forward, 2. raising back up the 2 cm you brought it down and 3. it also looks like you have some room on the steerer to raise the bars up to compensate for the lower back pain. Let us know how it goes.

rwinthenorth

If I do the math, this frame also might be to small. You have a 33.25"(84.5cm) inseam and just taking a S.W.A.G (scientific wild ass guess) at it, I would peg you for a 58cm-59cm frame. I have a 57cm with a 32" (81.28cm) inseam and still tweaked near the top of the fit. It's just my opinion. Some guys like maxing out a smaller frame.

serpico7

Great observation! It didn't occur to me before, but I'm on rollers, so the back wheel is lower than the front wheel.

If I look at the video, the rear axle is markedly lower than the front axle. If the screen is tilted (or head is tilted) to line up the axles (or tops of the wheels), the relationship between the saddle and bottom bracket changes quite a bit.

serpico7

At 5'7", I'm pretty sure a 58-59cm frame will not fit. It would allow me to have less seatpost exposed, but I wouldn't be able to reach the bars without a very short stem.

sogood

Still sounds like your arm length is proportionally greater than the general population (as also seen in the video). If that's the case, then a custom frame may be required.

__________________
Morphed Bianchi Camaleonte IV 2006, Ridley Damocles 2006, Garmin, Mac

strader

From the video the curve in your lower back and low saddle height looks like the biggest problem to me. Going with a longer/larger frame like others have suggested would exagerate the curve in your low back and make the problem worse. I had the same problem earlier this year where I would get extreme back pain 30 minutes into a race, even though I was riding with the bars level with the saddle. It wasn't until I examined race photos that I noticed I had a curve in my lower back with my hips pointing straight up instead of tilted forward. I had to remind myself while riding to tilt forward at the hips and keep my lower back straight. In practice I still have a slight curve in my low back, but to me it feels straight. Also when doing hamstring streches make sure to keep your low back straight and bend forward at the hips. For years when I would do forward bends I would bend forward with my lower back, and not with the hips. I had so much flexibility in my lower back that I could stand on the palms of my hands in a forward bend! However when I would bend forward only at the hips my hands would hang just below the knees! As a result I never developed the requisite hamstring flexibliity, and this carried over to horrible bike posture.
I now run a very aggressive bike fit on my road bike with a ~10 cm drop to the bars. I can ride comfortably this way for multi-hour rides with most time split between riding in the drops and hoods. A year ago this same setup would have killed me.
My recommendation would be to set everything back to the way the bike fitter set it, and practice riding on the hoods and in the drops for as long as you can before developing low back pain. Concentrate at bending forward at the pelvis/hips, and keep video taping yourself. Study photos of pro riders and try to mimick their position on the bike. An aggressive position on the bike doesn't come natural to anyone except maybe pre-pubescent junior racers and ultra flexible yogis. Long term it will benefit your racing through better aerodynamics and power generation.