Evangelical Disconnect

Colorado Ryder

I'm a Christian but i agree completely with you. Our history as Christians shows that some will use it for power and domination. Just look at the Church in the middle ages. Men used religious doctrine for their own personal gain and to maintain their power.

ndbiker

I believe the government should have no say in who, what or how someone worships or does not worship (assuming no laws are broken in the process ie. you can't go behead someone because your faith tells you you should). That is what our constitution says. Just what theocracy am I demanding you live under? What leader of what church am I demanding be placed at the head of our government. What scripture have I quoted you? You call me a bible thumper but the only thing I have indicated is that I am Christian, beyond that and that I like cycling you know little about me. If I may be a little bold I would assume from your postings that you would want an atheist government which just might tolerate churches. Finally, I would venture to guess that you have no idea what it is like to live under the Taliban. The only thing I expect of you and me is that we abide by the US constitution and the laws of this country. If I am so threatening because of that well you will just have to live with it.

jhuskey

You can separate church and state but will never separate church and politics.
Don't confuse the two.

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Over 6 million squirrels attempt suicide each day.

Billsworld

I disagree. Creationism is good science and neither evolution or crationism should be taught in a tax funded school. BTW Darwin beleived in creation...well kind of

Bro Deal

We know that you don't believe in separation of church and state and seem quite miffed that the Supreme Court doesn't support your view. That factoid implies a heck of a lot.

__________________
"I'm completely fu**ed up. Even the speed of the bus was almost too fast for me." -- Gert Steegmans

Bro Deal

ROTFL.

You gotta be kidding me!

__________________
"I'm completely fu**ed up. Even the speed of the bus was almost too fast for me." -- Gert Steegmans

ndbiker

I have to admit I disagree with a number of supreme court decisions most having to with them completely ignoring the 10th amendment (all powers not given to the federal government are the states or the peoples-I paraphrase). Justice Black was ruling on whether or not we should publicly fund private schools. He was a member of the KKK and very anti-catholic which many of the private schools were at the time. In his decision he brought up Thomas Jefferson and his indicating there should be a wall of separation between the church and the state (Jefferson put this in the Virginia constitution). Jefferson did not write the US constitution or the bill of rights, Madison was the main author. The founders very well could have used Jefferson's terminology but they did not as some of the states did in fact have state religions at the time and the purpose of the wording was to prevent the federal government from intruding on religious freedom not to eliminate religious expression from all levels of public society. How do I believe Black should have handled the case? Give it back to the states. No where in the constitution does it give the federal government the power to regulate schools. Virginia has in it's constitution specific wording (written by Jefferson) concerning the separation of church and government. I see no problem with UMichigan putting in foot baths for its Muslim students, they are not saying you have to be Muslim, nor are they breaking a law by putting in the foot baths. Again, if a high school wants to have a prayer or not have a prayer that is up the high school. However, the federal government cannot make a law requiring it or preventing it (according to my interpretation of the first amendment, read it and see what you think). Now, where we get to the part that annoys you, if people guided by their values, which are probably a function of their faith or lack thereof, elect representatives which make laws reflecting those values then unless those laws are unconstitutional we all have to live by them. A bientot.

itxaradia

well, good cyclist that we are, here goes our logo:

"Cycling is my religion, Indurain my god and my cycling club my only and true church"



(only kidding- or not??

Crankyfeet

+1 to every Bro Deal post.

On the Gay issue. Its obvious that homosexuality is a threat to the Christian/Old Testament model of "creation". If people are born with a genetic predisposition to having sex with the same gender, it kind of invalidates God's creation of them.

I just find it unbelievable that Christians can think that all gays and lesbians are intrinsically heterosexual, but choose to be "evil". That they choose homosexuality, like other sinners choose crime. It makes you think that a lot of Christian leaders and Christians themselves are closet homosexuals (like Ted Haggerty). I have not one human cell of inclination of attraction to the same sex. So it is obvious/reasonable to me that the tendency is genetic. It is also a phenomena present in the animal kingdom. It is not some disease that is going to spread to our children if we don't fight it. Homosexuality might become more obvious to the casual observer when the Ted Haggerty's of this world come out of the closet. But that will be only because homosexuals will be happier.

Having said that, I am still struggling with the sight of two guys kissing in public. But that is just my problem.

Now when I use the term "Christian" I am referring to the stereotypical Bible Belt Christian hardliner. There are obviously Christians who are a little more sympathetic, like Jesus was I suppose.

Crankyfeet

OMG. This is the scariest post I have ever read on Cyclingforums.com. I "pray" for the children who may be shielded from knowledge in the future. And that the US isn't dragged into the Dark Ages by people who have this belief.

Billsworld

So you are in favor of teaching creationism in public scools? seems a little radical to me..... I dont. As far pretending that there isnt a gay lobby that isnt tyring to promote an agenda and force it into public schools is beyond turing a blind eye. As far as teaching evolution in schools. There are Many note worthy scientists that beleive is is junk science too. IMO teaching either becomes teaching religion in schools. The foundation to being agnostic, is evolution as you believe. Teach it to your kid yourself, as I will teach my kid my beliefs. Its fair to both sides and doesnt ask the taxpayers to fund either belief

itxaradia

sorry to say and no offence meant, but it seems almost "surreal" to see that education science and religion are still mixed and debatable issues "over there". the Roman catholic church "apologised" to galileo just a few years back, and now you come "questioning" evolution theories , which honestly have been questioned scientifically but just in as far as it reflected Darwing own beliefs....... anyway to cut it short... Science is something no child should be deprived of and religion is something to be "felt" not taught or imposed so it does not really belong in the science lab........ if you waste time and energy over such issues, no wonder american educational system seems to be all but successful.

bkaapcke

Crankyfeet, I have always found the "homosexuality is a choice" argument interesting. It's really a political slogan used to make their intolerance appear acceptable. It actually poses huge problems for them. If homosexuality is a choice, so is heterosexuality. This leaves no support for one leading to more rights than the other. bk

We really should treat christians like they treat gays. We know they can dish it out, but; can they take it?

Crankyfeet

Creationism has as much right to be taught in schools as palm-reading and astrology. Evolution is not a religious belief because it contradicts the Old Testament. Similarly creationism is anything but a science.

I would be surprised if anymore than 0.001% of scientists have the belief that evolution and creationism are theories of equal scientific validity. Is this the spin you are fed in Sunday sermons? Because its obvious you haven't read a science journal or opened your eyes to the opinions of the scientific world. Oh silly me, you don't have to, because you already know all the answers. Hmmmm... I wonder where we would be today if all scientific discovery was discouraged/banished because we already had all we needed in our faith in the Good Book.

Just because evolution contradicts the creation story of the world being made in a week - six thousand years ago, doesn't make it a religious belief. Just as if the Old Testament told us that gravity was caused by angels pulling on everything, wouldn't make Einstein's Theory of Relativity a religious belief either.

The philosophy that you display here is very similar, if not the same, as the attitude that they have in Saudi Arabia with regards to scientific learning. You should visit there and see for yourself the effect of denouncing scientific learning.

Atomic theory and the phenomena of protons and neutrons and electrons are just theories as well. The theory hasn't been invalidated by any empirical studies since its inception. So far it has been 100% effective in modelling physical behavior of materials. And has led to many other findings and discoveries. But no one has ever "seen" a proton or an electron. Not to say a better theory doesn't emerge in the future. Like Newtonian gravity explained everything in the real world, except then Einstein's theory, whilst 99.9% congruent with Newton's, explained phenomena better, so was adopted.

Evolutionary theory has been cross-checked from hundred's of different directions and held-up. Creationism is a story from a historic book that a section of the world's population believes to be the word of God, that has no evidence in nature, and is in fact contradicted in nature.

But what is evident and scares me the most, is that a vast amount of people share your feeling that scientific learning is a threat to Christianity. Nothing is more scary than a fundamentalist backed into a corner. See Islamic terrorism for an example of where it can lead to.