Page 2 - Evangelical Disconnect

10-11.-2007, 12:15 AM

#16

limerickman

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Re: Evangelical Disconnect

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhuskey

As all people Lim. People want to find a niche that suits what they are or want to be.
We all want to belong and are all afraid of failure,whether we admit it or not.
If we subscribe to a belief or position that is suited to your social patterns and others that hold similar interest then we have come closer to achieving our goals and can get assurances to diminishl some of the fears of failure.
I still don't understand why some want to bash what they don't understand.
I don't like NASCAR but I am not on a crusade to ridicule it.

JH : thanks.
I think I understand what you're saying.

I've never heard of that concept "achieve a lifetsyle that they want".
We don't have that sort of concept over here.
Some believe in religion/God etc.
Others don't believe in religion/God etc.
The ones who do believe in God - don't tend to try to impose their view on those who don't.

In fact it's the opposite over here - it's the non-believers who seek to impose their view that all religion of any kind is beyond the pale.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

10-11.-2007, 12:19 AM	#17
jhuskey Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Great Smoky Mountains, TN USA Posts: 5,915	Re: Evangelical Disconnect Most people here just go about their business and hold to beliefs peacefully. It just that you only hear about the radicals and extremists. __________________ Over 6 million squirrels attempt suicide each day.

10-11.-2007, 12:23 AM

#18

limerickman

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Re: Evangelical Disconnect

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhuskey

Most people here just go about their business and hold to beliefs peacefully. It just that you only hear about the radicals and extremists.

hear from radicals and extremists at both end of the spectrum, no doubt.

currently over here, the naysayers are shouting more loudly.
But that can change when the other side find their voice too.

10-11.-2007, 12:47 AM

#19

wolfix

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Re: Evangelical Disconnect

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhuskey

Most people here just go about their business and hold to beliefs peacefully. It just that you only hear about the radicals and extremists.

Exactly.......

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10-11.-2007, 01:03 AM

#20

wolfix

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Re: Evangelical Disconnect

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

hear from radicals and extremists at both end of the spectrum, no doubt.

currently over here, the naysayers are shouting more loudly.
But that can change when the other side find their voice too.

Our naysayers are shouting also........ But we do have a radical christians portion of America too......

Our politically left minded people assume you are a "shout from the mountain top" born again fundamentalist christian if you vote Republican.
Most conservatives in America do not base their lives on religious beliefs. Conservatives are basically people who run their lives based on economic principles. They recognize that throwing money at failure is a waste of time. They tend to be accountable for their own actions and ask the same of others.
Big difference between conservatives and fundamentalists......

They really do not understand the workings of America when they pronounce such things. America is a country based on capitolism. Not on religion. Most capitolists are republican simply because they do not want government involvment in their lives. And it used to be the Republican Party wanted smaller government. And hopefully it returns to that........
I do not want a country based on social programs making inefficient individuals out of people.

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10-11.-2007, 01:12 AM

#21

limerickman

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Re: Evangelical Disconnect

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfix

I'm slightly puzzled, Wolf.

You say that most conservatives vote on the basis of the economic principles and not on their beliefs.
I'm to understand that Bush & Co sought and obtained the christian vote in the US.
So the conservative vote would appear to be based on religious belief, would it not?

10-11.-2007, 01:57 AM

#22

wolfix

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Re: Evangelical Disconnect

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

Yes, he did seek the christian vote. They contain a very large base of voters. But they also seeked the conservative voter that is not based on religious belief....... Where the confusion comes in is that many consider all conservatives highly relious people. We use the term "conservative" too broadly in this country. It is used to define the "Christian Right" way too often.......

There are many conservatives who do not base their votes on their religious beliefs. That is the core of the Republican Party. But they do need the Christian right to win the elections.

Ther Christian vote is powerful today. We even see the Democrats kissing them today in attempt o swing the votes of the right thinking Christians. ..........
But we have a interesting thing that may occur soon ....... Guliani vs H Clinton. . What we have is a Catholic vs a lady from the center of the Bible Belt. And this country has shied fronm Catholic leaders, and Hillary is not liked by her old neighbors in Little Rock...
It will be fun if this is what developes......

The Christian fundies in this country are very well organized and they have focus.

__________________
"Ethics are so annoying. I avoid them on principle."
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10-11.-2007, 02:04 AM	#23
bkaapcke Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 112	Re: Evangelical Disconnect Why does "achieving the lifestyle they want" always mean that we all have to live by their values? This may not look like a problem from inside the churches, but on the outside, it's huge. So huge, that I am compelled to speak out against it. Relentlessly. bk

10-11.-2007, 04:26 AM

#24

Billsworld

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Re: Evangelical Disconnect

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

1/3 of his base is/ was "Christian" I will try to give an example that illustrates why Christians have become vocal in politics. I Portland Maine the shcool board decided it was a good idea to dispense bith controll pills to the middle school (thats 11-13 yr olds)in an effort to reduce teen pregnancy. This is being done at the request of the "child" without parental consent.( a true story) This is an example of something that would bring conservatives and or Christian out to defend their values. Because it underminds the job of the parent and shoves liberal values down everyones throat. Christian politics generally do lean to the right but from my experience most would prefer to live and raise their children without Ptown values being imposed on them and their children

10-11.-2007, 05:11 AM

#25

jhuskey

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Re: Evangelical Disconnect

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkaapcke

Why does "achieving the lifestyle they want" always mean that we all have to live by their values? This may not look like a problem from inside the churches, but on the outside, it's huge. So huge, that I am compelled to speak out against it. Relentlessly. bk

"I must ask" he said.Knowing deep down inside it was a big mistake to do so.

What values have been forced upon you? I know that there are laws and some may be considered to be based on moral values. I feel more pressure from retailers and cheesey commercials than religious venues.

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10-11.-2007, 06:35 AM

#26

Bro Deal

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Re: Evangelical Disconnect

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billsworld

No, it is a product of the reality that young kids are having sex and bot the kids and society are better off if they don't get pregnant. The christian fools want to ignore the problem.

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10-11.-2007, 06:51 AM

#27

Bro Deal

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Re: Evangelical Disconnect

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfix

Yes, he did seek the christian vote. They contain a very large base of voters. But they also seeked the conservative voter that is not based on religious belief.......

I don't see it that way. U.S. politics is extremely polarized. Each party mostly courts the extreme edges of their half of the spectrum, knowing that those who are off the edges will vote for whichever candidate is nominated in their half of the spectrum. Thus the system has three groups who are important: the extreme right, the extreme left, and a small independent group of swing voters in the center.

A repub presidential candidate has to bow down to the religious extremists. If they don't pass muster, they have no chance of getting nominated. After the nomination is in hand, they can cater to the not so religious voters.

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10-11.-2007, 07:46 AM

#28

Bro Deal

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Re: Evangelical Disconnect

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

Bro/Wolf : you've both got me stumped.
What does "achieve a lifetsyle that they want", mean??

I've never heard of this.

It usually boils down to religious loons who are personally offended that others don't want to live like religious loons, or are different than them. It most often exhibits itself in the christian right's hatred of gays. It used to be that they would use the same venom on blacks, jews, Catholics, Irish, Italians, Polish, etc. As each group became more mainstream it became socially unacceptable to hate them. Now they are left with gays, muslims, and an imaginary group of damned liberals who are plotting to take away their Bibles.

The amount of effort that the holy rollers expend fighting the gays is truly amazing. You would think they would concentrate on something that does not take place in the privacy of other people's homes--you know, something that would actually make a difference in their own lives.

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"I'm completely fu**ed up. Even the speed of the bus was almost too fast for me." -- Gert Steegmans

10-11.-2007, 08:07 AM	#29
limerickman Community Team Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: at the bar Posts: 12,133	Re: Evangelical Disconnect I'm at a loss as to how religion/ethics of the candidates can be a factor in his/her electability. By that I mean, whether Guiliani has had 20 divorces or not, doesn't make him a good or bad politician. America - since Reagan - seems to be fixated with the personal views of candidates instead of being interested in his/her policies plans. I'm not suggested that a candidate must renounce his/her religious belief. What I am suggesting is that the electorate should focus on his/her policies, when deciding on a particular candidates Politics and religion must remain separate - otherwise it will lead to trouble, in my opinion. __________________ .."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF morelike hypocrisy.

10-11.-2007, 08:24 AM

#30

Billsworld

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Posts: 797

Re: Evangelical Disconnect

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro Deal

No, it is a product of the reality that young kids are having sex and bot the kids and society are better off if they don't get pregnant. The christian fools want to ignore the problem.

I am fine with giving birth controll to 11 year olds as long as you let me take my tax dollars that the local state and federal govt seizes from me at gunpoint and let me send my kid to a different school. A school where they are not sitting next to your kid. Christians generally would prefer to take responsability for guiding their own children and not have them faced with the school system telling their kids about birth controll and homosexual activity in grade school.( thats 5yrs old through 12yrs old for any non U.S. people reading) It is in fact the left that is forcing their values on everyone else and then call all those opposed to them a homophob , racist or whatever word fits the situation. Lets face facts, the values in the U.S. have moved radicly to the left and have been doing so for some period of time. The left "Bro", seems to get angry when Christian stand their ground. People should look closely at who the men were that wrote and signed the constitution and the freedoms that it gave you and BK to piss all over Christianity. They were Christians.....Hard core Bible thumping, evengelical types. Dont you find it odd that the religion that you piss on is the only one that could form a government that allowed for those freedoms. The One the left embraces is dead...OOps I forgot about China...Lots of freedom there

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