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Genetic Potential / Trainability of FTP

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Old 27-10.-2007, 07:32 AM   #16
frenchyge
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Default Re: Genetic Potential / Trainability of FTP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markster
I'm fresh at the moment so I might have a go at a couple of 1min efforts tomorrow.

Not a couple -- one. If you do it right there won't be a thought left in your mind about trying another one.
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Old 27-10.-2007, 07:37 AM   #17
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Default Re: Genetic Potential / Trainability of FTP

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Originally Posted by Markster
Is there much connection between the 5secs and 1min durations?

Yes, typically there's a positive correlation between 5s and 1m due to the effect of neuromuscular power, and also between 5m and FTP due to the similar aerobic contribution.

AC's impact kinda straddles the line between 1m and 5m, greatly aiding both.
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Old 27-10.-2007, 07:37 PM   #18
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Default Re: Genetic Potential / Trainability of FTP

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Originally Posted by frenchyge
Not a couple -- one. If you do it right there won't be a thought left in your mind about trying another one.


Did one, full commitment (nice head ache straight away!). Averaged 608W. So I guess I'm a bit better than I thought, but it's still a good bit down on my 5min level. But then I'm not a kilo rider so maybe that's to be expected?

It doesn't seem like my 5min power is as a result of a big anaerobic capacity?
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Old 27-10.-2007, 08:39 PM   #19
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Default Re: Genetic Potential / Trainability of FTP

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Originally Posted by Markster
A few weeks ago I did a HC which took 8:15 and I averaged 408W NP (400W average). I'd estimate my 5min power is at least 425W.
This time last year I did a 6:05 HC at a similar level of fitness and I averaged 425W @ 70W.

However, my FTP is currently only 321W. This is about 6 rows lower on the Power Profile tables. My 1min and 5sec powers (560W and 1200W respectively) are way below these numbers so I don't think my 5min power is elevated by a large anaerobic capacity ( I don't have particularly big muscles and I've done a CP analysis in the past and my AC was about 25k).

These figures give me a sharply inverted V profile. I've struggled with consistent training the last few years (a lot of overtraining and stuff), and although I've seen big gains doing FTP work, I've never managed to sustain a block for longer than 4weeks. I therefore don't have much idea of my real FTP potential, and whether I'm a natural inverted V, or whether I can improve my FTP to nearer my 5min power.

I've read that 'good' TTers can get their FTP to within 90% of their VO2max values. How much is this percentage defined by genetics? Can people generally achieve, say, 80%, but only a few have the potential to achieve 90%?

My goal is TTing so I will be focussing on increasing my FTP. I've also got on top of all the training issues I previously had so expect to train a lot more consistently. My goal for next season is an FTP of 350W (previous best is 335W).

Using the 8:15 HC @ 400W as an estimate of my VO2max power (how valid is this?) and assuming it doesn't change, my goal power power will be 88% of my VO2max power. Does this seem achievable? Is 90% (360W) achievable? I think I read that Dr Coggan can reach an FTP of 90% of VO2max power, but isn't he a bit of an aerobic monster? (sorry Andy!).

Anyone have any input?

Thanks very much!

just wondering what numbers you used for the CP-AWC analysis. On the face of it, I'd figure your AWC would be much higher than 25,000
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Old 28-10.-2007, 07:13 AM   #20
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Default Re: Genetic Potential / Trainability of FTP

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Originally Posted by rmur17
just wondering what numbers you used for the CP-AWC analysis. On the face of it, I'd figure your AWC would be much higher than 25,000


Why, because I did a 608W 1min test?

You're gonna destroy me on this one, but looking back I based the CP-AWC on a 5min test (400W), a 10mTT (20mins @ 354W) and backed up by a 25mTT (55mins @ 335W). I also did the 560W 1min test in this time frame.

The raw 5min and 20min points give an AWC of only 18400 and a CP of 338W.

As the 5min test was on the turbo, I felt like I could maybe have done 415W in a race situation. That gives an AWC of 24400 and a CP of 334.

I guess really if I wanted to know for sure I should do a proper set of CP tests, however when I look at my best numbers (all done in the last 12 months):

5sec: 1200W - 17.1W/kg (Cat 2/3 overlap on Power Profile tables)
1min: 608W - 8.69W/kg (Cat 2/3 overlap)
5min: 425W - 6.07W/kg (mid Cat 1)
FTP: 335W - 4.79W/kg (low Cat 1)

...in combination with how I am able to race (good aerobically, get killed in any sprints), I feel it's unlikely that my high 5min power is a result of anaerobic capacity. I've also not done any dedicated Zone 6 training, or even much Zone 5.
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Old 28-10.-2007, 08:04 AM   #21
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Default Re: Genetic Potential / Trainability of FTP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markster
5sec: 1200W - 17.1W/kg (Cat 2/3 overlap on Power Profile tables)
1min: 608W - 8.69W/kg (Cat 2/3 overlap)
5min: 425W - 6.07W/kg (mid Cat 1)
FTP: 335W - 4.79W/kg (low Cat 1)

...in combination with how I am able to race (good aerobically, get killed in any sprints), I feel it's unlikely that my high 5min power is a result of anaerobic capacity. I've also not done any dedicated Zone 6 training, or even much Zone 5.

I'd agree, but I wouldn't blame your lower 1m power on a low AC either. My interpretation is that a mediocre neuromuscular power (or lack of dedicated sprint training) is hurting both your 5s and 1m numbers. It's possible that some sprint work might reveal more of a ^ or -- shape.
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Old 28-10.-2007, 10:22 PM   #22
rmur17
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Default Re: Genetic Potential / Trainability of FTP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markster
Why, because I did a 608W 1min test?

You're gonna destroy me on this one, but looking back I based the CP-AWC on a 5min test (400W), a 10mTT (20mins @ 354W) and backed up by a 25mTT (55mins @ 335W). I also did the 560W 1min test in this time frame.

The raw 5min and 20min points give an AWC of only 18400 and a CP of 338W.

As the 5min test was on the turbo, I felt like I could maybe have done 415W in a race situation. That gives an AWC of 24400 and a CP of 334.

I guess really if I wanted to know for sure I should do a proper set of CP tests, however when I look at my best numbers (all done in the last 12 months):

5sec: 1200W - 17.1W/kg (Cat 2/3 overlap on Power Profile tables)
1min: 608W - 8.69W/kg (Cat 2/3 overlap)
5min: 425W - 6.07W/kg (mid Cat 1)
FTP: 335W - 4.79W/kg (low Cat 1)

...in combination with how I am able to race (good aerobically, get killed in any sprints), I feel it's unlikely that my high 5min power is a result of anaerobic capacity. I've also not done any dedicated Zone 6 training, or even much Zone 5.

okay I was plugging 8-min x 400W that you did recently and 325W for 60MP and coming up with a very large AWC. Using 354W 20MP yields CP 325 and 37000 AWC. It's pretty sensitve.

FWIW, the model predicts about 445W 5MP using those two data points.

In any case you already have very good power/weight ratio's .. it'll be interesting to see where training takes you.
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