Russia tests world's biggest bomb

Crankyfeet

I think he was referring to an earlier post I made about Americas decision to drop two bombs within three days on Japan before getting the surrender.

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limerickman

665,000 have died as a direct result of your country, and your country's allies, invading Iraq.
That's what I said.






........none of which exonerates what your country is doing in Iraq, either.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

9202

Last time I checked, Israel's territory has actually decreased in size.
The wacky world view expressed her is so obsurd that it defies reality.

Carrera

"Instead of crushing Iraq, taking it over, and forcing "democracy" on them until they got the hang of it, as we did to Japan, we are trying to be culturally sensitive while fighting a war."

Why force your way of life and values on other countries? Isn't the essence of freedom and liberty the right to find your own way and develop as a society?
Some countries are not as advanced as others but will hopefully evolve and develop as the centuries pass by.
You know, as a Star Trek fan I noticed Captain Kirk and Spock had an international federation policy which stated they could not interfere with alien cultures. I suppose because the sci-fi writers were assuming social evolution is a unique process and if you tamper with it and interfere, it all goes out of synch.
Americans need to somehow grasp that dictators like S Hussein are part of the process leading towards some sort of democracy. He was an unpleasant dictator who somehow managed to hold a tribal country together and would have passed away at some point so something better could take his place.
Barging in and bombing Iraq to blazes does far more harm than good so we may wind up with something far more unstable than S.H.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

Bro Deal

You need to check again--this time without the Zionist blinders on.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

9202

OK, so now I have "Zionist Blinders" on.
What a load of stinking, rotting, putrified, antisemitic nonsense. Which BTW, I am not of that religion.

Now, for the record, Israel has in fact returned ;arge areas of land taken during the Six Day War, which was a result of Israel being invaded.

You are absolutley full of uneducated, uninformed, blinded propaganda.

9202

Uh, give me a break.

Look, I agree that the US needs to be more even handed in foreign policy, but if the US ever sits by and watches murderous dictators oppress their people by inaction I will be highly disappointed.

That means IMO, all countries and dictators need to be taken to task by the world community. Whether it be Saddam Husein, Hitler, or anyone who imposes a heavy hand and murders their own people. To say that US murdered 600,000+ people in Iraq is a disgusting, propagandist, inciteful and untrue argument.

It is these kind of statements that show me how fuc$ed up the world really is. Yes, the US may be playing world policeman, but their intent is good and intended to help people. Yes, it furthers their own social and economic agenda, but the basis is good. No other country provides the level of humanitarian aid as the US.

I will also say, that if the US is to carry such a large responsibility, it will be and is held to a higher standard. When idiots do stupid things we come down on them and initiate change. Our system not being perfect allows for change. Our film makers can make documentries whether they are factually twisted to make a point or not, they can make them. I wish I could say the same about Castro or Putins regime.

The US does not hide what it does. We air our laundry publicly, we take rdicule, we learn, and we evolve. The operable fact is that we are open, we value honesty and we believe in not opressing people.

And, for the record, I just checked both my college and high school histroy books, both state that the "Allies won WWII". Again, you guys are perpetuating propagandist information through positions of factual ignorance or just regurgitating what is said in the propagandist media.

How about spending some time in other countries, reading their textbooks and doing some research. In fact, Lexis Nexus and many of the other online informational services have copies of newspapers from the last 75 year or so. You can read what was actually written prior to and during WWI, II, Vietnam, and all of the Isreali/Arab conflicts. In fact, by doing so you may even find that what you have come so steadfast to believe is actually quite mythological.

Done, I am taking my TT bike for a long hard ride to clear my mind of this stuff.

Crankyfeet

OK. Israel boundaries of occupation in 1948. Israel boundaries of occupation 2007. Which is bigger? Or is that just an absurd point? We should be only looking at the last 2 years. Because the problems in the middle east only began two years ago.

For someone who threw their hands up in disgust a few pages ago and checked out of this nuthouse, you're spending alot of "wasted" time here arguing with nutters.

And BTW - I like to avoid highlighting grammar and spelling deficiencies as its usually a pretty lame fall-back, but "obsurd"? Since the "o" is on the opposite side of the keyboard from the "a", I don't think you committed a typo.

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9202

Agreed, but you were initially referring to Isreali invasions of other countries. Prior to the UN accords, Israel did not exist prior to staehood. That was a war for independence and statehood.

So does your point infer that all countries that were created by wars of independence should give back all lands?

No, I think not, but because it is Israel and that revisionist myths have been perpetuated over the years, like the Palestinians owned that land prior to Israel, when in fact the land was originally "TransJordan" has been totally forgotten. After Israel's borders were invaded in 1967, she took the Sinai etc. The Sinai was returned to Egypt and a peace treaty was signed.

Let's get with the program, making partial and misleading statements only serves to perpetuate half truth and animosity.

These are complicated geopolitical issues, Simplifying them into sound bites and media rehetoric serves no purpose.

I need to reset my cyclometer and got on the road. And BTW, I wish I had stellar typing skills but I don't. Sorry. ;-) In HS I was too busy playing with the girls to take typing 101.

G'day mate.

Crankyfeet

Saddam was a murderous dictator all through the 80's which the US knew about. America was his BFF then. Please don't blinker yourself to the spin you hear from the President and his doting "independent" media sluts.

Yes. The US provides alot of global humanitarian aid, but if you think being a good global policeman means going around the world thwacking anyone you don't like on the grounds that they might be a threat (to America) sometime in the future, and that they're weak enough to be invaded, then you can basically justify any military aggressive action as "good".

Heck, even Hitler might have got away with Poland if he'd thought about framing his invasion as the virtuous action of a global policeman.

Great. Some humility. Much better than the arrogant, "You guys are so beneath me" attitude displayed before.

Look 9202, all these so-called anti-american guys in here want is a bit of humility and remorse for US errors. Then we can get stuck into their respective countries as a comparison. But the "We're always righteous and good" crap doesn't cut it with smart independent observers. And it just worsens Americas' brand-name globally.

US policy worked much better when our might was assumed, rather than felt. Like the kid on the playground with the black-belt in karate. He has lots of friends when he acts as the passive protector. Not so well-liked when he goes around picking fights with weak kids.

When I grew up, we were always taught that the military aggressors were the bad-guys. And the defenders of sovereign nations were the good-guys. You know, like the rationale the US used in 1991 to attack Iraq. Because Iraq invaded Kuwait then. Well the US pre-emptive attack on Iraq completely changed that paradigm. So now when countries invade others, we have to wait for our government to tell us whether their "goodies" or "baddies".

Lecture 1 : Global Public Relations 101, class dismissed.

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Carrera

"That means IMO, all countries and dictators need to be taken to task by the world community. Whether it be Saddam Husein, Hitler, or anyone who imposes a heavy hand and murders their own people."

I read today that the Sudanese prison where the lady from Liverpool will be for the next few days has guards that beat prisoners with hoses and commits terrible abuses, as well as overcrowding. Not only is that unacceptable for the Liverpudlian but it's also unacceptable for the Sudanese prisoners as well.
So, why are these people being allowed to abuse human rights when only S.H. in Iraq is taken to account.
That's what sucks! Does the U.S. really care about this sort of thing or do they pick and choose which country is unacceptable on the assumed basis of human rights.
Put it this way: If Bush had said no more abuses of human rights in Iraq and no more abuses in Sudan or Zimbabwe too, he'd have had my support if international forces had gone in. I have no time for despotic regimes either but let's target the collective wrongs, not just isolated cases. And let's do it because we care about the rights of human beings, not because it suits our budgets.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

sogood

Errr... When you started with no land, there's still a major net gain irrespective of how you look at it.

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Morphed Bianchi Camaleonte IV 2006, Ridley Damocles 2006, Garmin, Mac

sogood

Why bother to argue this point? Even Bush et al has admitted that the basis of the war was an oil grab. Democracy? If democratic principles were followed by the US in the UN, the war wouldn't even have got started. Those people clinging onto the notion of "democracy export" are blind as a bat.

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Morphed Bianchi Camaleonte IV 2006, Ridley Damocles 2006, Garmin, Mac

Carrera

It's a similar problem with the Ingush in Ossetia. Stalin deported some of the original inhabitants of Ossetia so other ethnic groups moved in during their absence. Then, the deported occupants returned and ethnic conflict began. That's all linked to the school hostage crisis in Beslan.
With Israel it's the same. Jews were kicked out by the Roman emperor Hadrian and lost their Roman province State of Israel/Judea. This put them into a position of exile eventually in Europe, Russia and Germany.
So, Stalin and Hadrian caused 2 difficult ethnic situations and conflict.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."