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Friel - Making fall and winter training program

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Old 28-09.-2007, 06:26 AM   #31
kopride
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Default Re: Friel - Making fall and winter training program

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Originally Posted by Alex Simmons
I dunno about holy grail status, there are plenty of interval variations that would be just as effective. I think 2x20 with a 10 min warm up, 5 min recovery between efforts and a 5 min warm down gives a nice round 1hr workout for time poor riders that's easy to remember and attainable in training where motivation is not at race day levels.

Do you think you lose anything if you give yourself ten minutes recovery between these intervals? I find that I start to really struggle to keep it within L4 range in the last 5 minutes of the second interval, but giving myself the extra 5 minute rest makes a tremendous difference in my ability to sustain and concentrate.

This is a standard workout for me since blocking off more than 1:15 minutes to train during a busy work week is brutal.
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Old 28-09.-2007, 07:14 AM   #32
Alex Simmons
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Default Re: Friel - Making fall and winter training program

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Originally Posted by kopride
Do you think you lose anything if you give yourself ten minutes recovery between these intervals? I find that I start to really struggle to keep it within L4 range in the last 5 minutes of the second interval, but giving myself the extra 5 minute rest makes a tremendous difference in my ability to sustain and concentrate.

This is a standard workout for me since blocking off more than 1:15 minutes to train during a busy work week is brutal.
Either drop the power of the efforts down so you can complete them or push out the recovery time and gradually bring that down.
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Old 03-10.-2007, 05:02 AM   #33
kopride
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Default Re: Friel - Making fall and winter training program

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Either drop the power of the efforts down so you can complete them or push out the recovery time and gradually bring that down.

I was afraid you would say that.
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Old 23-10.-2007, 03:56 AM   #34
Andy SG
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Default Re: Friel - Making fall and winter training program

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I have done some digging on the Internet, and quite a lot in this forum. I've also read Morris book.

I would like to test the following plan on you with more experience from training.

Use Morris as the base for training, including block training - but I will skip the weight lifting. This means that I will start on my VO2max, using SMSP intervals, and later during winter move to MSP intervals. Long slow rides (3.5 hours +) for endurance will be added once a week when the weather allows it.

Doing this I have 6 months of training, in which I need to set the point where MSP training becomes dominating. Any ideas on how to balance the two phases against each other? From what I read in the forum, 2x20 minutes is the base for most of you, but Morris use SMSP intervals a lot in all his examples. This is btw much in line with the training ideas of Nordic Skiing linked to in this thread.

Secondly, you that have been using Morris, how do you increase your CTL in SMSP phase? As I see it you could add reps, set, maybe extend the time of a rep - I use 4 minutes as reference for first day in a block - or add days to the training block. Is 1.5 h SMSP intervall training during a day more or less the maximum time if wanting to keep intensity up, or what do you think?

Anyone training twice per day with a similar set-up as discribed? How do you distribute the training then?

Finally, what are the risks with a set-up like this? Will I become a 'Christmans rose', meaning I will peak at Christmas time, or? Are there other risks that you are aware of?

What would you expect as an outcome of the suggested approach? - I guess the question is - Will my ability to ride MTB and road races be biased so that I will hard time to handle certain race senarios, track profiles etc, but give me an advantage in up hill sections, for instance?

Thanks for your input
Ok, I've been doing this for a while. Some lessons learned: I started doing 4 minutes intervalls, using HR monitor and standard trainer. I thought I were doing things rather 'bye the book' but when a I bought a trainer that can show power, and where I can set the power limit, I realized that the training become much harder. Much! This said, my load was percieved even lower in the beginning of the intervall, compared with the traditional set-up. This must have meant that I were cheating more than I thought. A reality check gives: I'm doing intervalls at 290W for four minutes at a cadence of approximately 90. If I drop the cadence down to 80 by the end of the intervall, I would drop the power output down to 260W. 260 W is a hell of a difference compared with 290, while the drop in cadence seem rather small by the end of an intervall. This probably means that my old trainer allowed me to cheat 10% without giving much feedback. At the same time I wasn't aware of the huge difference in workload between say 290 and 260W. Are you with me?

So. I'm going from a Friel base training set-up to a high intensity program where I even changed the perodization, meaning that I start with VO2max training. What have I learnt?

1) Block training seem to work better than I expected. I get less feel of fatigue than I expected, and even in comparison with Friel's 10-15 hours per week.

2) This type of training is very time efficient. Allowing me to train harder this time of year than I ever done before. This of course give results.

3) I try to ride my mtb during weekends, when it fits with the training plan. I then ride race simulations of approximately 2 hours. I can push my self harder with a couple of months on high intensity training than I've ever been able to do before. I feel as if I have improved my mtb performace significantly.

4) Still I don't see a clear next step. As I said above: Anyone having any ideas when to shift to more MSP style of training, and how do I increase the load over cycles/weeks?

5) Intervalls requires much more mental strenght than just going out and do a nice ride during a nice evening.

6) Using blocks, and power meetering I fast become stuck with figures, watts, intervall lenght etc. It is a risk that it becomes to technical to ride bikes. (It is to some extent compensated for since I ride mtb in a way that is better than ever before).

I have gained say 20 W ower one month, on my 4 minutes intervall, since I started to use the trainer with power meeter. 10 W is maybe improvements in technique of doing the intervalls, and 10 is pure gain. My ability to run hard on my mtb has increased over the approximately 2 months I've been doing this. That was expected, I would say. I didn't expect the same change in 20 minute efforts on the flat with the mtb. I don't have any real measured data, but my speed on the flat for longer fast rides feels (and is indicated by the speedometer) to be faster than ever. I have estimated my FTP to be 230 W and will monitor that moving forward, but I thing it has changed at least 10 -20 W in two months, with only weekend racing and SMSP intervalls in the weekdays.

Thanks for your input so far, and please continue to share your thoughts on my training.

BR
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