Lying - now on the banned list!

alienator

No, I'm appealing to no moral standard when I say that. I'm merely repeating what Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Bhuddhists, Agnositcs, Atheists, and others have said.

And I don't think my moral standard takes precedence. I do think that there are quite a few people here that don't want Christianity shoved in their faces. In fact, a good lesson for Evangelicals would be that a lot of the world doesn't want to be force fed Christianity.

I do, however, find it hilarious that you folks can't seem to understand what a fact is and what proof is. I don't care what books anyone presents: there is zero proof of a Supreme being. Zero. Whether you look in Physics, Math, Biology, Cosmology, Astronomy, the geological record, or the anthropological record, there is no proof of a god. That is why there is something called faith. Now, many Christians will posit that Intelligent Design takes care of that, but Intelligent Design is nothing but a supposition. It is supported by no science and exists completely outside of Scientific Method. As such, it's a philosophy or religion. It is not anything remotely scientific.

nns1400

This is a curious statement to me. Virtually every culture across time has held some sort of belief in a God or a spiritual reality, yet in this particularly small period of time in this place, a belief in God is considered an extraordinary claim. I think a belief that there is no God is far more of an extraordinary claim.

That aside, there is a lot of evidence that leads some to belief in God, and/or specifically Christianity. Before any discussion of such, I think it's fair to ask, however, if any kind of evidence would make any difference?

Obviously we are dealing with something that cannot be absolutely proven either way, but I find that most people who say there is no evidence really don't want to consider any. Would any evidence interest you?

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This stuff is just crap...Hitchy

nns1400

[QUOTE=alienator]No, I'm appealing to no moral standard when I say that. I'm merely repeating what Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Bhuddhists, Agnositcs, Atheists, and others have said.

And I don't think my moral standard takes precedence. I do think that there are quite a few people here that don't want Christianity shoved in their faces. In fact, a good lesson for Evangelicals would be that a lot of the world doesn't want to be force fed Christianity.[QUOTE]

That doesn't make sense. You are appealing to a moral standard. You are saying it is wrong to have Christianity shoved in someone's face. Why is it wrong? You are saying it is wrong to be force fed Christianity. And by implication, you are saying that it is right to keep one's views (if one is a Christian) to oneself. Why is it right?

And if you are merely repeating Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Agnostics and Atheists, then you are appealing to the moral standards of Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Agnostics, and Atheists, who incidentally, all believe they hold the correct view, or they wouldn't hold their view in the first place.

Your view is that it is wrong for someone else to say they are right. Right?

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This stuff is just crap...Hitchy

alienator

There is no evidence. You'll also note that I've not discussed anthing re: my beliefs, nor will I do that here.

I don't find a belief in a god or the lack of a belief in a god extraordinary at all.

As for your beliefs about people who believe there is no evidence not wanting to consider any, I think that's a fairly smug view. Perhaps you just don't like it that people don't consider your message evidence.

Besides, there is no evidence, no facts. Again, there doesn't need to be. That's what faith is for.

alienator

No, I merely repeated what others have said. That is not an appeal at all.

And as for my view, you have no idea what my view is. You have your assumptions with which your comfortable. And I'm not here to discuss religion with you. In fact, I don't care at all what your religious beliefs are, much like I don't care to discuss any of my beliefs with you or your ilk. If you can't even suss out the fact issue, there is no point in trying to talk about anything.

nns1400

I'll note that your belief is that there is no evidence.

I said that many people, not all, don't really care about evidence. There is no evidence that would ever matter to them. This is based on conversations with friends who have said so.

How is that smug? It's just a fact, not a belief. Just saves time to ask. I was asking Bro Deal, by the way. Other people are seekers and like to consider the arguments one would make in favor of God or Christianity. Doesn't mean they will accept them, but they enjoy the conversation.

Others just feel threatened by any comments about such topics.

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nns1400

I asked you what moral standard you are using when you say it is wrong for people to prosletize? If something is wrong, then conversely the opposite is right, thereby implying a moral standard. This is not religion; this is called basic logic.

Why are you repeating the views of the other groups you mentioned? Are they right to be offended by Christians? Or wrong?

And what do you mean by the "fact issue." You have said there are no facts regarding religion. Would you like to discuss facts instead?

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This stuff is just crap...Hitchy

KellyT

Isn't there a suitable forum for people who are hell bent on expressing their religious views ...

...SOMEWHERE ELSE!

nns1400

That's kind of funny. Hell bent, and all. Hey, it was a discussion of morals about lying and consequences and such, and certain individuals who say they don't like expression of religious views kept right on posting about such. I was just asking questions. And something about people who don't want their views challenged shouldn't post on a forum, though that was on another thread.

May I add that it was 3 a.m. for the those involved on this side of the pond- you know, late night digressions and all. If anyone wants to keep talking about it, there is always the Bloody Soap Box, which would be the preferred area, I agree.

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This stuff is just crap...Hitchy

Yojimbo_

Alienator - you can't argue with these people. Been there, done that. They refuse to see logic.

My tactic is to just ignore them.

baj32161

Okay gang...this has already been done to death in THIS thread http://www.cyclingforums.com/t299785.html

I am willing to bet that a few of us here will remember it. Arguing religious beliefs in a cycling forum is, at best, a futile undertaking. Trust me I know .

Cheers,

Brian

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"Don't think, feeeeeeeeeeeeel....
It is like a finger, pointing away
to the moon......
Don't concentrate on the finger,
or you'll miss all that Heavenly glory."

Bruce Lee
"Enter The Dragon"

Bro Deal

People across most of history spent their time killing residents of the nearby village with rocks and pointy sticks. Other favorite pastimes were burning witches and threatening to torture anyone who determined that reality did not jibe with their religious dogma. Aside from a few backwater churches in the U.S. I don't see a ground swell of support to go back to those times.

We have advanced beyond where we needed to sacrifice to the rain gods to give a bountiful harvest, so it does not matter what primitive and superstitious cultures of the past believed.


There is zero evidence of any sort of god. None. Zilch. Nada. Bupkis.

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"You are like the wind and I like the lion. You form the tempest. The sand stings my eyes and the ground is parched. I roar in defiance but you do not hear. But between us there is a difference. I, like the lion, must remain in my place. While you like the wind will never know yours." -- Mulay Hamid El Raisuli, Lord of the Riff, Sultan to the Berbers, Last of the Barbary Pirates

sideshow_bob

Ha ha ha BroDeal, I can almost feel the literal bible crowd sharpening their sticks.

--brett

nns1400

Sorry, Bro, not allowed to discuss this here. I'll go over to the Bloody Soap Box and I can ask you again if any evidence would matter to you. If there were any, would you care? But I'm not asking you here, of course.

P.S. Now they use roadside bombs.

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This stuff is just crap...Hitchy