Re: OT: joining the ranks of two wheelers again

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Peter Cole wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>> In article <Xb6dnf_K5NGI1QDbnZ2dnUVZ_vbinZ2d@comcast.com>, Peter Cole
>> wrote:
>>> Brent P wrote:
>>>> In article <Z92dnZOrYdhYoADbnZ2dnUVZ_vPinZ2d@comcast.com>, Peter
>>>> Cole wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, I disagree. By being unpredictable, I make things less risky
>>>>> for others since drivers have to pay more attention. This
>>>>> phenomenon is easily seen where bike messengers are common. Drivers
>>>>> bitch, but they watch out.
>>>> Until you get hit by the idiot who was text messaging thinking you'd
>>>> be predictable and you weren't.
>>> Hasn't happened yet, but then it's my ass, isn't it?
>>
>> Give it time.
>>
>
> Unlike you, I have never hit another cyclist. I also have never had a
> bike crash or a car crash. Maybe you should listen to reason.

Peter Cole must be the most skilled cyclist ever, if he has never
crashed on a bicycle. I wonder if he has even ridden single-track - if
so his abilities must be godlike to not crash.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Peter Cole wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>> Peter Cole wrote:
>
>>> Oh, get over yourself. Nobody takes those laws seriously other than a
>>> priggish, sanctimonious minority of bike riders. Live large, what are
>>> they going to do, revoke your license? Heh.
>>
>> You sound an awful lot like the Harley rider who passed me on the
>> shoulder and then started cussing me out because I didn't immediately
>> jam on the brakes to let him merge in because "it was his life I was
>> risking."
>
> Sorry, I don't follow that comparison.
>
>
>> No, dumbass, YOU are risking YOUR life when you don't play by the
>> rules. It is rare that I can honestly say that I wouldn't have
>> sympathy for someone when something bad happens to them, but when
>> you're playing Darwin's little helper, c'est la vie.
>
> Well, if it's my skin I'm risking, why should you care? That's my whole
> point. I don't think laws are intended to protect people from
> themselves. Actually, I don't think I do risk my skin any more than you
> (probably less), and since it is my skin, I feel completely entitled to
> risk it or not as I see fit.
>
> No need for name calling.

YOUR behavior on a bicycle leads to a general disrespect of cyclists by
motorist. This makes things more dangerous for EVERY cyclist.

Please don't complain when laws are passed requiring cyclists to use
second class facilities such as MUPs and "bike lanes", since your
actions help bring about support for these laws.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Brent P wrote:
> In article <mKCdnY-WK4DjKAHbnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@comcast.com>, Peter Cole wrote:
>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>> I fully expect to get hassled by a cop eventually for impeding traffic
>>> but it hasn't happened yet.
>> Why? As a cyclist, you have a right to use the road, while as a motorist
>> you have a conditionally granted privilege.
>
> 1) He was talking about driving the underposted speed limit. Speed limits
> are so poorly set that driving them is impeding traffic. I294 has a large
> photo enforcement work zone presently. I sit in the right lane at 45mph.
> Usually I have a semi truck 3-6 feet behind me. Last sunday it was series
> of 4 wheelers. One particular minivan driving was laying on the horn 3
> feet off my rear bumper....

Try being a worker in a construction zone some time, and you will end up
hating the jerks who drive through at 30-mph over the speed limit.

Driving through a construction zone and recognizing some of the workers
by name puts a whole different perspective on it.

If the people behind me don't like my driving a safe speed and honk,
flash their high beams or tailgate, I just slow down even more.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Arif Khokar wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Arif Khokar wrote:
>
>>> I should get narrower tires then (26 x 2.0). At least they have
>>> smooth tread instead of the typical mountain bike tread.
>
>> Narrow tires only have lower rolling resistance if their inflation
>> pressure is higher.
>
> I keep my tires inflated to 65 psi (which is the maximum pressure
> specified). I would assume that the surface area contact patch for a
> narrower tire would be less, which should result in less rolling
> resistance.

Rolling resistance is due mostly to hysteresis from the sidewall of the
tire flexing and tread squirm. Since a wider tire deforms less than a
narrower tire to make the contact patch [1], the wider tire has less
hysteresis loss, inflation pressures being equal. Tread squirm is best
reduced by using smooth tread for road riding, since hydroplaning on a
bicycle is practically impossible.

[1] The size of which is dependent on load and inflation pressure.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Brent P

In article <469d7d21$0$30848$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:

> Try being a worker in a construction zone some time, and you will end up
> hating the jerks who drive through at 30-mph over the speed limit.

There were no workers present and the speed limit is insanely low. There
is a full lane closed off between where the workers and traffic anyway.

> Driving through a construction zone and recognizing some of the workers
> by name puts a whole different perspective on it.

> If the people behind me don't like my driving a safe speed and honk,
> flash their high beams or tailgate, I just slow down even more.

Many chicago area work zones don't require a drop to 45mph because they
are set up well with a buffer lane and/or jersey barriers.

When it comes to a worker stepping out into traffic and getting hit, he's
just as dead at 45mph as 75mph.

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Peter Cole wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>> In article <7oWdnWVNVdhpTwHbnZ2dnUVZ_qninZ2d@comcast.com>, Peter Cole
>> wrote:
>
>>> What you say applies to the right of way rules, their are mountains
>>> of other laws that don't apply to non-motorized vehicles. Even if the
>>> ROW rules are similar, the penalties are usually much different,
>>> reflecting the obvious (to some) difference in liability.
>>
>> We are discussing right of way rules, lane usage, etc and so forth.
>> All of those apply.
>
> Well, specifically we were discussing passing on the right. Both of our
> states have differences in how cars and bike are treated there -- and
> the differences are different!
>
> MA allows bikes to pass on the right, even where cars may not --
> unqualified by any minimum distance. IL apparently has no qualifications
> for cars, but requires 8' of pavement for bikes. The behavior which you
> take such a hostile attitude towards is perfectly legal in my state --
> preferentially so for bikes.
>
> Outside of rather arbitrary and inconsistent right of way rules, bicycle
> riding is very much on the same legal footing as walking. Motor vehicle
> operation has huge liability issues, so it is reasonable to be heavily
> regulated by the state -- unlike bikes.
>
> The one-size-fits-all "vehicular" model for bicycling is naive and
> unnecessarily restrictive. I realize it's popular among some cycling
> advocates, I've listened to the arguments, and I simply disagree. I
> don't want equal status, I want preferential status and I think that's a
> reasonable attitude given the relative vulnerabilities and liabilities.
> Where enforcement is lax and fines are small I guess it's an academic
> argument. I only jump in the fray when cyclists get hostile towards
> other cyclists with different views or try to ram through laws that
> represent their tastes.

Good luck in getting preferential status for a minority, unless that
minority is rich enough to bribe (legally or otherwise) the politicians.

Annoying motorists will not earn you preferential status, but may well
earn the second class status of being restricted to inferior facilities,
such as bicycle lanes where they exist.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Peter Cole wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>> In article <CeednXQQOec32QDbnZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@comcast.com>, Peter Cole
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Sure. What possible danger do I pose to them? What potential danger
>>>>> do they pose to me? See the difference?
>>
>>>> You could easily do 1-2 grand in body damage to my property as you
>>>> violate the rules. You could easily get yourself hit and do damage
>>>> to my property. That's what gutter passers are doing.
>>
>>> Sorry, I'll call bullshit on this.
>>
>> You don't know what body work costs. Just repainting is over $300 a
>> panel. Run your brake handle along the side of a 2 door car and that's
>> a grand right there without even denting anything. A side mirror
>> assembly can easily run a couple hundred bucks without painting. Dent
>> a panel... well then... anyway price out some body work sometime.
>> People hitting my car has allowed me to learn what body work costs.
>
> I think you're tripping.

I just went and got some estimates from the body shop to repair a minor
dent in the front fender and passenger door - the estimate was $1,300.
Repainting the rear bumper cover (scratched from getting rear ended at
low speed) was $450. Paintless dent removal for a door ding was $200.

Brent's numbers seem entirely reasonable.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Zoot Katz

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:38 -0500,
tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote:

>> I think you're tripping.
>
>Body shop labor is $46/hr here. Figure it out.

You're gridlocked, I'm riding a bicycle.

You'd have to be able to catch me before you could try collecting.

You figure it out.
--
zk

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Zoot Katz wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:38 -0500,
> tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com (Brent P) wrote:
>
>>> I think you're tripping.
>> Body shop labor is $46/hr here. Figure it out.
>
> You're gridlocked, I'm riding a bicycle.
>
> You'd have to be able to catch me before you could try collecting....

Around here, the judge might send you to the county jail for a few weeks
for "hit and run".

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Zoot Katz

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:22:39 -0500, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0003@yahoo.com> wrote:

>YOUR behavior on a bicycle leads to a general disrespect of cyclists by
>motorist. This makes things more dangerous for EVERY cyclist.

BULLSHIT!
Don't worry about my riding. Driver's crappy attitudes are
self-inflicted. Things are not well in "happy-motoring-land" or
haven't you noticed.

Bicyclists have been scorned, harassed and maligned by non-bicyclists
since before von Drais added steering 190 years ago. That people are
still riding and others are still whining must tell you something.
Look around, we're still here and there's more of us every year.

The first US bicyclist to be struck by a car happened 130 years ago.

It's obviously CARS that make things more dangerous for everybody.
--
zk

Nate Nagel

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>
>> In article <mKCdnY-WK4DjKAHbnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@comcast.com>, Peter Cole
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>
>>>> I fully expect to get hassled by a cop eventually for impeding
>>>> traffic but it hasn't happened yet.
>>>
>>> Why? As a cyclist, you have a right to use the road, while as a
>>> motorist you have a conditionally granted privilege.
>>
>>
>> 1) He was talking about driving the underposted speed limit. Speed
>> limits are so poorly set that driving them is impeding traffic. I294
>> has a large photo enforcement work zone presently. I sit in the right
>> lane at 45mph. Usually I have a semi truck 3-6 feet behind me. Last
>> sunday it was series of 4 wheelers. One particular minivan driving was
>> laying on the horn 3 feet off my rear bumper....
>
>
> Try being a worker in a construction zone some time, and you will end up
> hating the jerks who drive through at 30-mph over the speed limit.
>
> Driving through a construction zone and recognizing some of the workers
> by name puts a whole different perspective on it.
>
> If the people behind me don't like my driving a safe speed and honk,
> flash their high beams or tailgate, I just slow down even more.
>

It's quite different when the "construction zone" doesn't have any
workers in it at all...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Peter Cole

Brent P wrote:
> In article <1oKdnUzJdY_LzgDbnZ2dnUVZ_u_inZ2d@comcast.com>, Peter Cole wrote:
>
>> Unlike you, I have never hit another cyclist. I also have never had a
>> bike crash or a car crash. Maybe you should listen to reason.
>
> Ride around kids on bikes some time. They are unpredictable, more than
> you. They also don't obey rules, like you. Throw in some blind corners.
> PLUS they crash into you.
>
>
>

They don't crash into me. I think you need to be more careful.

Peter Cole

Brent P wrote:
> In article <1oKdnVDJdY-fzwDbnZ2dnUVZ_u-unZ2d@comcast.com>, Peter Cole wrote:
>> Brent P wrote:

>>>>> Unlike you, I'm not a hypocrite.
>
>>>> Nope. I just believe in "same roads, different rules", the precedents
>>>> are there, they just don't go far enough.
>
>>> That's what a hyocrite does. He believes in X for others and Y for himself.
>
>> Nope, X when I drive, Y when I bike.
>
> I don't think you drive. If you did, you'd be annoyed by people who bike
> like you.

FYI, I drive about as many hours a week as I ride. I have probably
logged around 500K miles driving and 50K miles cycling in my lifetime.
No bike crashes, no car crashes, one ticket (age 16). You?


>
>>>> I certainly don't want to be given a whole lane, that causes way too
>>>> much disruption to traffic.
>
>>> Actually it doesn't when people know how to drive and pay attention.
>
>> It's needlessly taking up space in already crowded roads. You're doing
>> no one any favors.
>
> unlike you apparently, I know how to do things smoothly. My car takes up
> the same space if I am in the left lane or right lane.

Yes, but you & the cyclist wind up taking 2 lanes. What you have decided
(on your own) to be "ideal" isn't recommended by anyone, save you.

>
>>>>> I don't expect special treatment. You do.
>
>>>> Not special for me, special for cyclists.
>
>>> Which actually results in resentment.
>
>> Probably, among some, but they should grow up and get over it.
>
> You should grow up and follow the agreed upon right of way rules instead
> of having a childish need to be first.

When traffic is mixed, concessions have to be made for safety.
Currently, motorists aren't asked for enough concessions, for cyclists
or pedestrians.


>>> I don't like being buzzed by other bicyclists, be it that I am biking or
>>> driving, thusly I don't do it to others. Yet you expect to do it but not
>>> have it done to you.
>
>> I don't see the problem with being buzzed by a bike when you're driving,
>> I think you're over-sensitive.
>
> Once you've had someone lane split you on the dan ryan expressway with a
> motorcycle doing a 120mph, it can have that effect.

Oh, please. Let's stick to bikes, shall we?

> Once you've had
> someone do that with a bicycle when you were starting a right turn, it
> changes your idea of it.

That's why we have mirrors on cars. You really should be more attentive.


>>> When given a chance to complain, who do they complain about? Here's a
>>> hint, it's the gutter passers and red light runners.
>
>> Not my experience at all.
>
> Guess you don't pay attention much.
>
>> Virtually 100% of the bitching I've heard from
>> drivers is that "you guys are all over the road", or things to that
>> effect. I've *never* heard a driver bitch about red light running, only
>> other cyclists. As others have pointed out on this thread, the real way
>> to piss off a driver is to "take the lane", AKA drive like a "vehicle".
>> They absolutely hate that.
>
> First thing anyone brings up in my experience is running red lights. On
> occasion, just using the road. Or do you ride on the sidewalk?

Much of my riding is done in areas without sidewalks. I have heard a lot
of bitching about cyclists, both on & off the bike, but I have never
heard complaints about stops & lights except from cyclists like you. All
of the complaints I've heard were about being slowed down by cyclists. I
have never been honked or yelled at for running a red, but I have been
many times for "taking up too much of the road" (like taking a lane, or
staying out of the door zone, or even moving into a dedicated left turn
lane).

Motorists are always in a rush, they despise delays. When you (as a
cyclist) jump a red, you're out of their way. If you don't screw up any
cross traffic, why should anyone care? They may have to pass you down
the road, they may not, it's luck of the draw in stop & go.

If circumstances exist such that you and the motorists keep
leapfrogging, the average speed is the same, so there's nothing to be
gained by jumping lights, and you might as well just stay with the
traffic (stop & go), but that usually pisses people off more.

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Peter Cole wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>> In article <1oKdnUzJdY_LzgDbnZ2dnUVZ_u_inZ2d@comcast.com>, Peter Cole
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Unlike you, I have never hit another cyclist. I also have never had a
>>> bike crash or a car crash. Maybe you should listen to reason.
>>
>> Ride around kids on bikes some time. They are unpredictable, more than
>> you. They also don't obey rules, like you. Throw in some blind
>> corners. PLUS they crash into you.
>>
>>
>
> They don't crash into me. I think you need to be more careful.

I have had more close calls (and accidents caused) from children while
riding a bicycle than from motor vehicles.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com