Re: OT: joining the ranks of two wheelers again

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Peter Cole wrote:
> ...
> I grew up (boomer) in one of the early burb-prototypes. I watched it get
> malled into drive-thru hell. As an adult, I lived in urban areas,
> finally settling in a semi-urban area, but do weekly at least rides into
> more rural areas. What I have seen over my lifetime, and it seems with
> acceleration in the past decade, is a growing dominance of the
> automobile in all these areas. What goes along with this is a growing
> intolerance for bikes. What people seem to not get is that further
> accommodations only make things worse -- uglier, noisier, more sprawled
> -- destroying the quality of life. I think the only rational solution is
> to roll back the role of the car, restricting access, lowering speeds,
> regulating operation, etc....

While I agree with Peter's observations, I disagree with the cause. The
change for the worse is not due to increased status of the automobile
(which has been preeminent in the US for more than half a century) but
the doubling of the population of the US during the time the automobile
has been ascendant.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Wayne Pein wrote:
> Arif Khokar wrote:
>
>> dgk wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:42:54 GMT, Arif Khokar <akhokar1234@wvu.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I learned during Driver Education that doing what is expected is
>>> sometimes safer than doing what is legal. If everyone is doing 70 in
>>> a 55 zone, and I do 55, I'm the road hazard.
>>
>>
>> That's true, and that also means the speed limit is underposted.
>>
>>> Same with biking. It may be legal to "take the lane", but I am not a
>>> sprinter and I can't go 20 or 30 mph unless I'm going downhill with
>>> the wind. So, getting in a lane of cars, and going my usual 12 mph
>>> (on the high end of my average) is simply not smart and not considerate.
>>
>
>
> I can't agree with any of this.
>
> Is it dangerous for a bus to come to a complete stop?

The bus [1] is big enough to take care of itself. [2]

[1] Motor-pacing the bus is dangerous, but great fun!
[2] Where I live, the bus (transit and school) drivers will violate your
right-of-way on a regular basis.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Matthew T. Russotto

In article <z3qni.22447$RX.15593@newssvr11.news.prodigy.net>,
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>
>The road rage phenomenon is disturbing, and as Zoot so elegantly points
>out, it's something that's generated inside a car.

Zoot rather points out the opposite; he's a cyclist, and even on
Usenet he's quite vitriolic.

--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

Matthew T. Russotto

In article <h092n4-vrf.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org>,
Dane Buson <zuvembi@unixbigots.org> wrote:

>I'm personally in favour of graduated licensing and possibly graduated
>taxation, both based on engine displacement[1].

Ah, so you're a fan of rotaries and turbocharging?
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

frkrygow@gmail.com

On Jul 19, 10:23 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
> Thank you for fixing your user name. Now the other two primary offenders
> need to follow suit.

Sorry, but I'm using two different accounts here. One is not "fixed"
as you like it. But my real name is always at the bottom of my posts.

- Frank Krygowski

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
> In article <h092n4-vrf.ln1@curare.zuvembi.homelinux.org>,
> Dane Buson <zuvembi@unixbigots.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm personally in favour of graduated licensing and possibly graduated
>> taxation, both based on engine displacement[1].
>
> Ah, so you're a fan of rotaries and turbocharging?

Find an old Fiat 850 and a wrecked Honda S2000. Cram the Honda engine in
the Fiat and add a supercharger.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

frkrygow@gmail.com

On Jul 19, 10:44 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Peter Cole wrote:
> > ...
> > I grew up (boomer) in one of the early burb-prototypes. I watched it get
> > malled into drive-thru hell. As an adult, I lived in urban areas,
> > finally settling in a semi-urban area, but do weekly at least rides into
> > more rural areas. What I have seen over my lifetime, and it seems with
> > acceleration in the past decade, is a growing dominance of the
> > automobile in all these areas. What goes along with this is a growing
> > intolerance for bikes. What people seem to not get is that further
> > accommodations only make things worse -- uglier, noisier, more sprawled
> > -- destroying the quality of life. I think the only rational solution is
> > to roll back the role of the car, restricting access, lowering speeds,
> > regulating operation, etc....
>
> While I agree with Peter's observations, I disagree with the cause. The
> change for the worse is not due to increased status of the automobile
> (which has been preeminent in the US for more than half a century) but
> the doubling of the population of the US during the time the automobile
> has been ascendant.

I disagree. I've visited countries whose population density was much
greater than that of the US. (That's even excluding our "wide open
spaces.") Those countries tolerated and accommodated bikes much
better than the US does.

Somewhere around the 1940s or 1950s, American society decided that no
mode of transport counted for much except cars. That's caused immense
problems. Other countries didn't make that mistake.

- Frank Krygowski

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

frkrygow@gmail.com aka Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Jul 19, 10:23 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>
>> Thank you for fixing your user name. Now the other two primary offenders
>> need to follow suit.
>
> Sorry, but I'm using two different accounts here. One is not "fixed"
> as you like it. But my real name is always at the bottom of my posts.

I suggest you go down to the county courthouse and ask the judge to
change your legal name to "frkrygow@gmail.com" then.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

frkrygow@gmail.com aka Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Jul 19, 10:44 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
> <sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Peter Cole wrote:
>>> ...
>>> I grew up (boomer) in one of the early burb-prototypes. I watched it get
>>> malled into drive-thru hell. As an adult, I lived in urban areas,
>>> finally settling in a semi-urban area, but do weekly at least rides into
>>> more rural areas. What I have seen over my lifetime, and it seems with
>>> acceleration in the past decade, is a growing dominance of the
>>> automobile in all these areas. What goes along with this is a growing
>>> intolerance for bikes. What people seem to not get is that further
>>> accommodations only make things worse -- uglier, noisier, more sprawled
>>> -- destroying the quality of life. I think the only rational solution is
>>> to roll back the role of the car, restricting access, lowering speeds,
>>> regulating operation, etc....
>>
>> While I agree with Peter's observations, I disagree with the cause. The
>> change for the worse is not due to increased status of the automobile
>> (which has been preeminent in the US for more than half a century) but
>> the doubling of the population of the US during the time the automobile
>> has been ascendant.
>
> I disagree. I've visited countries whose population density was much
> greater than that of the US. (That's even excluding our "wide open
> spaces.") Those countries tolerated and accommodated bikes much
> better than the US does.

The motor vehicle operators are much ruder to other motor vehicle
operators now than a couple of decades ago. The degree of rudeness can
also be correlated to the amount of traffic.

Population control would also have the benefit of fewer children to
annoy adults.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Zoot Katz

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:36:51 -0500, russotto@grace.speakeasy.net
(Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:

>In article <g6mq931cfhgpab7f9a38mls1uh2nj453vk@4ax.com>,
>Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Oh, I do love a good series of speed bumps.
>>
>>It's so much fun to hear you chuckle heads scrape bottom in your
>>desperate attempts to get ahead of the bicycle. I get to laugh at
>>your stupidity every time I have to steer around the busted plastic
>>car crap you filth-bags leave laying in the road..
>
>Here's one in the large "not pro-bike but anti-car" category. Speed bumps
>suck to go over on a (road) bike. Going around isn't much better, it
>results in going through the mushy gravel and dirt which accumulates
>there.
>
>And it's pretty obnoxious to advocate for a device which damages cars,
>then call drivers "filth bags" because of the results of that damage.

Hey, you're the one who hit it too fast. Don't blame me but thanks
for the laughs. How much are those air dams?

The other thing that you filth bags regularly do is leave the busted
plastic, glass and metal crap from your collisions laying around in
the road for me to ride through or around. Survivors should be made
to clean up their mess after any collision.
--
zk

Zoot Katz

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:54:26 -0500, russotto@grace.speakeasy.net
(Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:

>>The road rage phenomenon is disturbing, and as Zoot so elegantly points
>>out, it's something that's generated inside a car.
>
>Zoot rather points out the opposite; he's a cyclist, and even on
>Usenet he's quite vitriolic.

Can you honestly say you've not experienced extreme or unnatural
anger inside your car? Perhaps even a level of anger you don't
normally reach when outside your car? Can you honestly say you've
never considered using your car or other ready implement as a weapon
while you were having your widdle traffic tantrums?

When some caged nincompoop threatens my well being with their
inattentive or aggressive vehicular stupidity my adrenalin races. I
can get angry especially if I was caught by surprise but that seldom
happens. Fact is you scud slaves are predictably stupid so I just
expect the worst.

When you're riding a bicycle there's too many other caged idiots
ready to pose the next threat. You can't be bothered to focus your
attention on the one that got away.
--
zk

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman

Zoot Katz wrote:
> ...
> The other thing that you filth bags regularly do is leave the busted
> plastic, glass and metal crap from your collisions laying around in
> the road for me to ride through or around. Survivors should be made
> to clean up their mess after any collision.

Speaking of filth on the road, what about a horse diaper law?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

r15757@aol.com

On Jul 17, 9:22 pm, Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
<sunsetss0...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Peter Cole wrote:
> > Nate Nagel wrote:
> >> Peter Cole wrote:
>
> >>> Oh, get over yourself. Nobody takes those laws seriously other than a
> >>> priggish, sanctimonious minority of bike riders. Live large, what are
> >>> they going to do, revoke your license? Heh.
>
> >> You sound an awful lot like the Harley rider who passed me on the
> >> shoulder and then started cussing me out because I didn't immediately
> >> jam on the brakes to let him merge in because "it was his life I was
> >> risking."
>
> > Sorry, I don't follow that comparison.
>
> >> No, dumbass, YOU are risking YOUR life when you don't play by the
> >> rules. It is rare that I can honestly say that I wouldn't have
> >> sympathy for someone when something bad happens to them, but when
> >> you're playing Darwin's little helper, c'est la vie.
>
> > Well, if it's my skin I'm risking, why should you care? That's my whole
> > point. I don't think laws are intended to protect people from
> > themselves. Actually, I don't think I do risk my skin any more than you
> > (probably less), and since it is my skin, I feel completely entitled to
> > risk it or not as I see fit.
>
> > No need for name calling.
>
> YOUR behavior on a bicycle leads to a general disrespect of cyclists by
> motorist. This makes things more dangerous for EVERY cyclist.
>
> Please don't complain when laws are passed requiring cyclists to use
> second class facilities such as MUPs and "bike lanes", since your
> actions help bring about support for these laws.

IMO, a cyclist taking the lane lawfully on a narrow busy road is far
more likely to lead to restrictions than the typical scofflaw.

R.

r15757@aol.com

On Jul 18, 9:10 am, Frank Krygowski <frkry...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
....
> Multi-user paths for transportation purposes are similar, except the few
> that serve as useful short cuts. (MUPs make fine linear parks for those
> who like them, but those should be paid for by park funds, not
> transportation funds.)

Nonsense. Where fully separated MUPS have been installed through
densely populated areas they have uniformly become highly useful and
important corridors for transportational cycling. I suggest you go
somewhere and experience what you apparently cannot even imagine.

Robert