Re: OT: joining the ranks of two wheelers again

Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS

Nate Nagel wrote:
> a friend (actually one of SWMBO's old roommates) is moving to CA and he
> stopped by to say goodbye on his way out of town... sold me his old
> mountain bike for cheap

Just don't use it as a mountain bike. Foot trails are no place for bikes
or motorcycles and the only reason they are allowed on trails is because
the bike and moto industries have bought off the corrupt officials. I've
lost track of all the mountain bikers i was forced to pound into the
ground while i was out hiking.

They're called TRAILS not roads. Case closed.

as a) it was beat up and b) he didn't want to be
> bothered moving it. So I am now the owner of a bike again, it's not
> what I would have chosen for myself (this is a big, heavy
> full-suspension deal; I'm more into light and nimble much like my
> preferences in cars) but it was cheap and serviceable. So I have no
> excuse now for using a car for around-town errands, unless I'm carrying
> a lot of stuff.
>
> I sincerely hope that I don't start doing the things that I see bikers
> doing on the roads all the time that pisses me off while driving (mostly
> blowing stop signs, and especially when forcing the same car to pass you
> multiple times as a result)
>
> I should be in better shape after riding it for a while; I think the guy
> at the bike shop was making fun of me because it is so heavy (I just
> rode up there to have the rims trued; that's an art I've never mastered)
> honestly, it is kind of a poser bike but then again, I haven't seriously
> ridden in more than 10 years so it is probably what I deserve
>
> nate
>

Tom Keats

In article <Odumi.7354$rR.1066@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS <xeton2001@yahoo.com> writes:
> Nate Nagel wrote:

>> I sincerely hope that I don't start doing the things that I see bikers
>> doing on the roads all the time that pisses me off while driving (mostly
>> blowing stop signs,

The so-called "California stop" is not exclusively
a cyclists' sin. At any rate, your own behaviour
is under your own control. You can't blame the
bicycle for what you do.[*] Bicycles don't have some
sort of attitude-altering property. So if you like
to move about in an orderly and sociable manner (as
I believe you do) you have nothing to worry about.
Unless you get a BMX :-)

>> and especially when forcing the same car to pass you
>> multiple times as a result)

What do drivers want to do -- get to their destinations
(which they will do anyways,) or just be ahead of
everybody else?

Putting everybody in the RV mirror doesn't necessarily
get you there any more effectively. As long as they're
not making you repeatedly touch the brake pedal, why
worry about it?

I'll tell ya what, though -- when you're on a bike,
everybody else just pathologically /has/ to get ahead
of you, no matter how fast you're going, or how unsafe
passing you will be, or if you're in a school or playground
zone. It's, like, ignominy to so many people, to ever
be seen or caught dead behind a bicycle. And this is the
case not only for drivers, but other, fellow riders as well.

What you /will/ experience is socially inept drivers who
think they can haul-up beside you on the stop lines, instead
of queueing in an orderly manner behind you, as they would
for any other vehicle -- and then hang a right turn from your
left side, right in front of you as you try to go straight.
Or they'll come roaring up from behind and butt-in in front of
you, 20 feet from the stop line you're approaching. Because
they simply /have/ to get ahead of you, at all costs, bless 'em
all. Fortunately, drivers are so reptillian-brainedly
predictable & programmed, so you pretty much know what they're
gonna do before they commit their incipient infractions.

>> I should be in better shape after riding it for a while; I think the guy
>> at the bike shop was making fun of me because it is so heavy (I just
>> rode up there to have the rims trued; that's an art I've never mastered)
>> honestly, it is kind of a poser bike but then again, I haven't seriously
>> ridden in more than 10 years so it is probably what I deserve

Stick a pair of Cheng Shin 26x1.50 slick tires
on there, and you'll be laffin'. Switching from
knobbies to street slicks feels like being shot
out of a cannon. Cheng Shins have a rep for providing
an harsh ride; that'll just teach you to ride light on
the saddle.


cheers,
Tom
[*] Or as Zoot Katz says: "You can't bullshit a bicycle."


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Nate Nagel

Tom Keats wrote:
> In article <Odumi.7354$rR.1066@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS <xeton2001@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>>Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>
>>>I sincerely hope that I don't start doing the things that I see bikers
>>>doing on the roads all the time that pisses me off while driving (mostly
>>>blowing stop signs,
>
>
> The so-called "California stop" is not exclusively
> a cyclists' sin.

No, but blatantly blowing them at full speed is. I regularly drive to
the Metro station, which happens to be along a marked bike route. I'd
say 75% of the riders I see don't even bother to slow down for stop
signs. I'm honestly scared that I will miss one someday... I'm not
sure how they stay alive, unless they are actually looking both ways and
I'm just not seeing them do it.

I honestly don't care if they do a "california stop" but seeing a biker
suddenly shoot across the intersection at 20 MPH as you're preparing to
step on the gas is a little unnerving.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Tom Keats

In article <f7e25i0l11@news2.newsguy.com>,
Nate Nagel <njnagel@roosters.net> writes:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>> In article <Odumi.7354$rR.1066@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS <xeton2001@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>>Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>I sincerely hope that I don't start doing the things that I see bikers
>>>>doing on the roads all the time that pisses me off while driving (mostly
>>>>blowing stop signs,
>>
>>
>> The so-called "California stop" is not exclusively
>> a cyclists' sin.
>
> No, but blatantly blowing them at full speed is.

No, it isn't. There's just a "motorhead" mindset
that tends to excuse drivers when they commit
that particular misdeed.

Anyways, I guess we agree that surprisingly barging
out into cross-traffic (and scaring the pants off
drivers) is a pretty crummy thing to do to people.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Brent P

In article <lp0e7f.n01.ln@vcn.bc.ca>, Tom Keats wrote:

> I'll tell ya what, though -- when you're on a bike,
> everybody else just pathologically /has/ to get ahead
> of you, no matter how fast you're going, or how unsafe
> passing you will be, or if you're in a school or playground
> zone. It's, like, ignominy to so many people, to ever
> be seen or caught dead behind a bicycle. And this is the
> case not only for drivers, but other, fellow riders as well.

I'll second that. I've been doing 25 in a 25 and had drivers gun it up to
40+ mph to get ahead of me. Yet when I drive the same road at 25mph, they
sit behind me without so much as tailgating.

> What you /will/ experience is socially inept drivers who
> think they can haul-up beside you on the stop lines, instead
> of queueing in an orderly manner behind you, as they would
> for any other vehicle -- and then hang a right turn from your
> left side, right in front of you as you try to go straight.

Which is why I always take the lane at stops. This doesn't stop them of
course. It's great fun when they are forced to come to a stop in the
on-coming lane though

> Or they'll come roaring up from behind and butt-in in front of
> you, 20 feet from the stop line you're approaching. Because
> they simply /have/ to get ahead of you, at all costs, bless 'em
> all.

Oh, and then they dilly-dally and don't accelerate... Then there was the
one I yelled at because she sat there until the light changed then turned
into a gas station, making me wait a second cycle. Got a talking to from
a cop because of that and yelling green-light-go at the next driver who
was daydreaming at the light.

> Stick a pair of Cheng Shin 26x1.50 slick tires
> on there, and you'll be laffin'. Switching from
> knobbies to street slicks feels like being shot
> out of a cannon. Cheng Shins have a rep for providing
> an harsh ride; that'll just teach you to ride light on
> the saddle.

If those are the tires I am thinking of, they are cheapies that I've
always had good luck with.. although never used them on anything wider or
smaller diameter than 27x1.25

Scott en Aztlán

tkeats2005@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) said in rec.autos.driving:

>>> The so-called "California stop" is not exclusively
>>> a cyclists' sin.
>>
>> No, but blatantly blowing them at full speed is.
>
>No, it isn't. There's just a "motorhead" mindset
>that tends to excuse drivers when they commit
>that particular misdeed.

Not in this group. Here we call them "MFFYs."
--
MFFYCam Videos Galore:
http://www.geocities.com/mffycam/
http://slothkills.blip.tv/

Peter Cole

Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>> a friend (actually one of SWMBO's old roommates) is moving to CA and
>> he stopped by to say goodbye on his way out of town... sold me his
>> old mountain bike for cheap
>
> Just don't use it as a mountain bike. Foot trails are no place for bikes
> or motorcycles and the only reason they are allowed on trails is because
> the bike and moto industries have bought off the corrupt officials. I've
> lost track of all the mountain bikers i was forced to pound into the
> ground while i was out hiking.
>
> They're called TRAILS not roads. Case closed.

Doesn't it bother you when your knuckles drag?

Arif Khokar

Brent P wrote:
> In article <lp0e7f.n01.ln@vcn.bc.ca>, Tom Keats wrote:

>> Stick a pair of Cheng Shin 26x1.50 slick tires
>> on there, and you'll be laffin'. Switching from
>> knobbies to street slicks feels like being shot
>> out of a cannon. Cheng Shins have a rep for providing
>> an harsh ride; that'll just teach you to ride light on
>> the saddle.

> If those are the tires I am thinking of, they are cheapies that I've
> always had good luck with.. although never used them on anything wider or
> smaller diameter than 27x1.25

I should get narrower tires then (26 x 2.0). At least they have smooth
tread instead of the typical mountain bike tread.

N8N

On Jul 15, 8:24 pm, tkeats2...@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) wrote:
> In article <f7e25i0...@news2.newsguy.com>,
> Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Tom Keats wrote:
> >> In article <Odumi.7354$rR.1...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> >> Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS <xeton2...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >>>Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> >>>>I sincerely hope that I don't start doing the things that I see bikers
> >>>>doing on the roads all the time that pisses me off while driving (mostly
> >>>>blowing stop signs,
>
> >> The so-called "California stop" is not exclusively
> >> a cyclists' sin.
>
> > No, but blatantly blowing them at full speed is.
>
> No, it isn't. There's just a "motorhead" mindset
> that tends to excuse drivers when they commit
> that particular misdeed.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Just
this AM I saw a cyclist blow two stop signs right in front of me, one
of which could have been very dangerous had I been just a few seconds
later than I was (as I was approaching from a direction 90 degrees
from his direction of travel at the time.) However, it's rare enough
to see a motorist do this that I usually remember it - I only see that
maybe once a month or so. I see cyclists doing it literally every
day, or at least every day that I see a cyclist riding on the road.

I'm guessing that in my area, ROTR are essentially not enforced with
respect to cyclists for some reason, and I am not sure why.

> Anyways, I guess we agree that surprisingly barging
> out into cross-traffic (and scaring the pants off
> drivers) is a pretty crummy thing to do to people.

Absolutely!

nate

Peter Cole

Nate Nagel wrote:
> Tom Keats wrote:
>> In article <Odumi.7354$rR.1066@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS <xeton2001@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> I sincerely hope that I don't start doing the things that I see
>>>> bikers doing on the roads all the time that pisses me off while
>>>> driving (mostly blowing stop signs,
>>
>>
>> The so-called "California stop" is not exclusively
>> a cyclists' sin.
>
> No, but blatantly blowing them at full speed is. I regularly drive to
> the Metro station, which happens to be along a marked bike route. I'd
> say 75% of the riders I see don't even bother to slow down for stop
> signs. I'm honestly scared that I will miss one someday... I'm not
> sure how they stay alive, unless they are actually looking both ways and
> I'm just not seeing them do it.
>
> I honestly don't care if they do a "california stop" but seeing a biker
> suddenly shoot across the intersection at 20 MPH as you're preparing to
> step on the gas is a little unnerving.
>
> nate
>

Motorists are just plain annoying -- they're always in the way, clogging
up the roads and forming long lines at intersections. Why should I be
forced to wait for them?

To add insult to injury, motorists fantasize that they "pay for the
roads", even though their road hog related contributions only add up to
around 60% -- which includes the entire highway system, most of which
we're not even allowed to enter. Add to that the fact that they're
responsible for most of the wear & tear, creating potholes, etc. and
requiring the massive overbuilding to carry their stinking bulk.

Most car trips are not even of necessity. Drivers just willfully snarl
up the streets with hourly "errands" to fast food drive-thru's,
excursions to Wal-Mart and cruising for yard sales.

If the pudgy, latte chugging, cell yakking, SUV jockeys had an ounce of
common courtesy, they'd just pull over when the see a bike approach and
let us by their spewing hulks. Why on earth should I stop for them?
What's the point of riding a bike anyway, to act like a car? I'm tired
of both subsidizing and accommodating these rude and selfish creeps.
Ooooh -- I startled one! Made him drop his Mcmuffin. Boo Hoo.

N8N

On Jul 16, 12:20 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
> > Tom Keats wrote:
> >> In article <Odumi.7354$rR.1...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> >> Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS <xeton2...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> >>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> >>>> I sincerely hope that I don't start doing the things that I see
> >>>> bikers doing on the roads all the time that pisses me off while
> >>>> driving (mostly blowing stop signs,
>
> >> The so-called "California stop" is not exclusively
> >> a cyclists' sin.
>
> > No, but blatantly blowing them at full speed is. I regularly drive to
> > the Metro station, which happens to be along a marked bike route. I'd
> > say 75% of the riders I see don't even bother to slow down for stop
> > signs. I'm honestly scared that I will miss one someday... I'm not
> > sure how they stay alive, unless they are actually looking both ways and
> > I'm just not seeing them do it.
>
> > I honestly don't care if they do a "california stop" but seeing a biker
> > suddenly shoot across the intersection at 20 MPH as you're preparing to
> > step on the gas is a little unnerving.
>
> > nate
>
> Motorists are just plain annoying -- they're always in the way, clogging
> up the roads and forming long lines at intersections. Why should I be
> forced to wait for them?
>
> To add insult to injury, motorists fantasize that they "pay for the
> roads", even though their road hog related contributions only add up to
> around 60% -- which includes the entire highway system, most of which
> we're not even allowed to enter. Add to that the fact that they're
> responsible for most of the wear & tear, creating potholes, etc. and
> requiring the massive overbuilding to carry their stinking bulk.
>
> Most car trips are not even of necessity. Drivers just willfully snarl
> up the streets with hourly "errands" to fast food drive-thru's,
> excursions to Wal-Mart and cruising for yard sales.
>
> If the pudgy, latte chugging, cell yakking, SUV jockeys had an ounce of
> common courtesy, they'd just pull over when the see a bike approach and
> let us by their spewing hulks. Why on earth should I stop for them?
> What's the point of riding a bike anyway, to act like a car? I'm tired
> of both subsidizing and accommodating these rude and selfish creeps.
> Ooooh -- I startled one! Made him drop his Mcmuffin. Boo Hoo.

Ah, I guess it was only a matter of time before the "arrogant asshole
cyclist contingent" showed up.

Here's a homework assignment for you: please post the section in your
state motor vehicle code where a bicycle acting as a vehicle (that is,
being ridden on the street) is exempt from any laws involving stop
signs or right of way.

nate

Peter Cole

N8N wrote:
> On Jul 16, 12:20 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>> Tom Keats wrote:
>>>> In article <Odumi.7354$rR.1...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>>>> Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS <xeton2...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>> I sincerely hope that I don't start doing the things that I see
>>>>>> bikers doing on the roads all the time that pisses me off while
>>>>>> driving (mostly blowing stop signs,
>>>> The so-called "California stop" is not exclusively
>>>> a cyclists' sin.
>>> No, but blatantly blowing them at full speed is. I regularly drive to
>>> the Metro station, which happens to be along a marked bike route. I'd
>>> say 75% of the riders I see don't even bother to slow down for stop
>>> signs. I'm honestly scared that I will miss one someday... I'm not
>>> sure how they stay alive, unless they are actually looking both ways and
>>> I'm just not seeing them do it.
>>> I honestly don't care if they do a "california stop" but seeing a biker
>>> suddenly shoot across the intersection at 20 MPH as you're preparing to
>>> step on the gas is a little unnerving.
>>> nate
>> Motorists are just plain annoying -- they're always in the way, clogging
>> up the roads and forming long lines at intersections. Why should I be
>> forced to wait for them?
>>
>> To add insult to injury, motorists fantasize that they "pay for the
>> roads", even though their road hog related contributions only add up to
>> around 60% -- which includes the entire highway system, most of which
>> we're not even allowed to enter. Add to that the fact that they're
>> responsible for most of the wear & tear, creating potholes, etc. and
>> requiring the massive overbuilding to carry their stinking bulk.
>>
>> Most car trips are not even of necessity. Drivers just willfully snarl
>> up the streets with hourly "errands" to fast food drive-thru's,
>> excursions to Wal-Mart and cruising for yard sales.
>>
>> If the pudgy, latte chugging, cell yakking, SUV jockeys had an ounce of
>> common courtesy, they'd just pull over when the see a bike approach and
>> let us by their spewing hulks. Why on earth should I stop for them?
>> What's the point of riding a bike anyway, to act like a car? I'm tired
>> of both subsidizing and accommodating these rude and selfish creeps.
>> Ooooh -- I startled one! Made him drop his Mcmuffin. Boo Hoo.
>
> Ah, I guess it was only a matter of time before the "arrogant asshole
> cyclist contingent" showed up.
>
> Here's a homework assignment for you: please post the section in your
> state motor vehicle code where a bicycle acting as a vehicle (that is,
> being ridden on the street) is exempt from any laws involving stop
> signs or right of way.
>
> nate
>

Oh, get over yourself. Nobody takes those laws seriously other than a
priggish, sanctimonious minority of bike riders. Live large, what are
they going to do, revoke your license? Heh.

Luigi de Guzman

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:41:06 -0400, Peter Cole wrote:


> Oh, get over yourself. Nobody takes those laws seriously other than a
> priggish, sanctimonious minority of bike riders. Live large, what are
> they going to do, revoke your license? Heh.

Depends on the jurisdiction. The "reckless driving" statute in Virginia
states:

"§ 46.2-852. Reckless driving; general rule - Irrespective of the maximum
speeds permitted by law, any person who drives a vehicle on any highway
recklessly or at a speed or in a manner so as to endanger the life, limb,
or property of any person shall be guilty of reckless driving;"

So you could be charged with a Class 1 Misdemeanor in this state.

The question of *enforcement*, however, is a bit difficult. Troopers
aren't everywhere, so you might be able to get away with a lot if you're
not caught. That is, unless you get into a traffic accident. If you so
much as think about trying to claim damages from the motorist who hit you
in a civil action, his attorney will be at pains to show your disregard
for the law and safe vehicular operation--which will cause you to lose
that case.

While I have done rolling stops on my bike, I don't think I've blown
through a stop sign or red light at full speed in ages. It's not worth my
life.

On the other hand, in very congested traffic--city gridlock, say--I can
and do pass cars and keep flowing. As traffic speeds increase, I fall
into line.


--
Luigi de Guzman
http://ouij.livejournal.com

bernard farquart

"Peter Cole" <peter_cole@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mf-dnVjhHMkvMAbbnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> N8N wrote:
>> Here's a homework assignment for you: please post the section in your
>> state motor vehicle code where a bicycle acting as a vehicle (that is,
>> being ridden on the street) is exempt from any laws involving stop
>> signs or right of way.
>>
>> nate
>>
>
> Oh, get over yourself. Nobody takes those laws seriously other than a
> priggish, sanctimonious minority of bike riders. Live large, what are they
> going to do, revoke your license? Heh.

Yeah, because there is no way that ignoring right of way
issues could come back to bite you, huh?

That is what the guy who's bike went over the hood of
my car was probably thinking right before impact.

Luckily it buffed right out.

Bernard