power vs cadence?

dkrenik

Maybe you should have gone with a higher cadence or not. Experiment and see what works best for you.

mullerrj

Exactly..that's what I'm suggesting/thinking. Maybe we can all benefit from increased cadence. Don't know. I do know over the winter months when I was spinning inside I religiously forced myself to spin at 100-105 rpms. I don't know if that helped or not. As I seem to do what you suggested earlier when I ride on the road..just do what feels best. When I perform FTP tests on Elite athletes I also notice that they ALL pedal at high cadence- 100-105 rpm. Just seems too coincidental that the best performances are coming from guys that spin at higher cadence. Yes, granted, you'll get guys like Jan Ullrich that like to mash bigger gears on hills..but maybe that's why he never beat Lance. Good thread! Thanks.

dkrenik

I can say that I basically wasted a season on cadence specific training plan. I changed the focus to power and saw immediate improvement.

mullerrj

I wouldn't say "wasted"..it's a learning experience. Plus, I think there is a direct relationship between cadence and power. i.e. there's a correct cadence for everyone which maximizes their power. The more research I do on the subj. I'm finding that a higher cadence leads to a "more sustained" power output. All good stuff!

dkrenik

Granted, I did learn something - focusing on cadence is a "red herring".

Obviously. See the equation for power. You need to look deeper into the the research you're seeing; untrained subjects, weird power levels, I believe that there's substantial evidence to support higher cadences for higher power at increasingly shorter durations. Just what that means to each individual is up to them.

Animator

I was hoping someone would mention quadrant analysis which has something to do with cadence I believe. Anyone played with that?

Alex Simmons

Many times

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Animator

What is your opinion of it? Is it useful? (also, are there any publicly available spreadsheets for doing it?)

Alex Simmons

Have a read of this:
http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/quad.asp
The explanations and spreadsheets are all available there.

I found out a few interesting things. For example:

Easy gear high cadence enduro motorpacing on the velodrome was essentially useless as a method to elicit improved aerobic condition.

Criteriums have special and highly varied force/velocity requirements and these need to be considered in training.

You can, with the right meter, also track the different F/V curve of track TT to see if your training should focus on improving the F or V part of the equation. or equally track the changes or compare to previous season

You might also check out some QA charts I posted in a thread on the power forum titled "Parsing Time" where I was evaluating the usefulness of a power level parsing application.

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acoggan

Lactate is not responsible for muscle soreness (and your muscle lactate would have been rather low after such a long ride anyway).

normZurawski

Not to sidetrack a (somewhat) sidetracked thread. But there must be some sort of "minimum cadence" that most (if not all) cyclists would be best staying above, no? Thinking here in terms of longer rides, and cadence of say 50 or less on the climbs, ie, it really doesn't play as much of a factor on shorter rides.

But say you're out for a 5 hour ride, or more. Would it seem to hold that your long-term performance would benefit, especially on the hills, if you stay above some cadence X, where X is ???

acoggan

Click on "step 9" here:

http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/

Azza_B

Hope my input helps here, if at all. But cadence is no less relevant than any other factor including HR.

Lower cadence but same output = greater force, i.e more muscle energy which = greater type II muscle fibre activation which will produce greater amounts of lactate. In an untrained cyclist this is disaster, in a trained cyclist this is fine! as lactate is an incredibly rich fuel source for type I fibres.

If however the type I are unable to utilise the amount of lactate forming then lactic acid (H+ ions) are formed which will cause peripheral (muscular) fatigue.

In summary research has repeadily shown (and i dont mean the research stated on some website or magazine) that the ideal cycling cadence is 100+ to limit peripheral fatigue. Therefore your limiting factor is central fatigue (VO2max) which can handle a hell of alot more! Its important to note that this ideal is for racing situations not training when you want to try and challenge your peripheral system more to promote adaptation.

So dont discount cadence it still important as are lactate thresholds and V02max.

Frigo's Luggage

I think you have to balance things. This concept of just spinning during the winter is for the birds. It only slows me down. Obviously, the key is power. How you get the increased power is the trick. It may not be the same for people with different muscle fiber types. I personally respond best by doing short 1 minute intervals at maximum power. I also notice that doing tempo or threshold work helps. However, it tends to cause my natural cadence to decrease. I am effectively teaching myself to pedal slow when I do tempo. So, to counteract this, I make sure that I do a high cadence (130+) pedaling drill to end each tempo or threshold workout. My rational is that I want my legs to "think" that high cadence is the way to go. Once I am in good shape and am about to start racing, I start doing 20 minutes at 130+ cadence once a week. After two weeks of this high cadence stuff, I usually feel like I am flying and have alot of snap in my legs.

In short, I don't think it makes sense to concentrate solely on cadence. In fact, I think that is counterproductive. However, I personally see real benefits from a regular dose of high cadence drills or intervals.