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Empty calories

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Old 21-05.-2007, 10:01 PM   #91
Jono L
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Default Re: Empty calories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratiocinator
I would sooner down a plate of steroids than a plate of hacked-up body parts.

Curious, does this mean you won't eat animals that are bred for human consumption because they are pumped full of 'roids or other products

OR

you won't eat other animals simply because they are animals?
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Old 21-05.-2007, 10:30 PM   #92
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Default Re: Empty calories

There are many reasons why I refrain from downing rotting flesh.

In summary:


1) I value my health.

2) I am not morally dead.

3) I try to avoid contributing to massive environmental destruction.
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Old 21-05.-2007, 10:31 PM   #93
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Default Re: Empty calories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratiocinator
There are many reasons why I refrain from downing rotting flesh.

In summary:


1) I value my health.

Hmmmm animals have been eating animals for years. We're carnivores.
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Old 21-05.-2007, 11:13 PM   #94
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Default Re: Empty calories

We are certainly not carnivores. We are not even omnivores. We are anatomically and physiologically herbivorous.



Meat and milk is toxic to humans and causes all manner of disease. Not many people realize this because disease is treated as a ‘normal’ thing that is unavoidable, and that ‘just happens’! Not many people think very much.

Unethical farmers often feed meat to cows and other natural herbivores. That does not make them carnivorous. Neither does meat in the human diet make us carnivorous.

Basic things such as the length of our entrails, the ph level of our stomach acid, the muscular structure of our jaws, the flatness and shovel-type shape of our teeth. All these things are what make us suited to plants, not meat. A child, when an animal and an apple are placed before it, will eat the apple, not the animal. This is instinctive behaviour.

Read more here:

http://www.earthsave.ca/articles/he...omparative.html

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Old 22-05.-2007, 12:58 AM   #95
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Default Re: Empty calories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratiocinator

I would sooner down a plate of steroids than a plate of hacked-up body parts.



I also bet you would down a glass of semen before(meat) hacked up body parts.
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Old 31-05.-2007, 11:28 AM   #96
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Default Re: Empty calories

Lookie there Zaskar, you ran off our punching bag. Who do we have now that will willingly put theirself in harms way.

Honestly, I don't usually make fun or take offense to many people, but his extremism invites it.
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Old 31-05.-2007, 11:44 AM   #97
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Default Re: Empty calories

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Honestly, I don't usually make fun or take offense to many people, but his extremism invites it.



I agree. no more food for the Troll.
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Old 31-05.-2007, 11:47 AM   #98
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LOL, finished. Thanks bro, Greg
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Old 31-05.-2007, 04:40 PM   #99
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Default Re: Empty calories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratiocinator
...Meat and milk is toxic to humans and causes all manner of disease. Not many people realize this because disease is treated as a ‘normal’ thing that is unavoidable, and that ‘just happens’! Not many people think very much...

Wow. Looney tunes. Cranks on the Internet are always good for a laugh.
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Old 31-05.-2007, 06:15 PM   #100
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Default Re: Empty calories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratiocinator
. A child, when an animal and an apple are placed before it, will eat the apple, not the animal. This is instinctive behaviour.
I LOL'ed
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Old 18-06.-2007, 05:26 AM   #101
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Default Re: Empty calories

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaskar
Look at it this way. If I or anyone else wants to eat junk how does that affect your life? Just because someone eats a freaking doughnut, does not mean they dont give a damn. Worry about yourself, unless our eating habits affects your life.

The OP asked what was best out of the list. Then you act like your above eveyone because you dont eat a dougnut. Go kill yourself.

Hi Zaskar,

Remember me? I used to be a frequent flyer around here back around 2004. I remember a discussion involving red meat and I think you were the one stating that when you reduced your consumption, you found that your energy level rose. If I'm confusing you with someone else I'm sorry.

My point here is going to be that Ratiocinator actually raises some very valid points. The problem is that everyone has different levels of concern and different levels of commitment when it comes to avoiding the things they know aren't good for them. I know that donuts are filled with saturated fats, sugar and devoid of any fiber. That doesn't stop me from having an occasional donut. I have a brother who is less focused on what I consider to be a more moderate approach. For him, it he reads that it's bad and the information is well supported, it goes on a rather lengthy list of things he'll never eat again. He and I are both cyclists, though while he rides a recumbent, I prefer a more traditional bicycle.

I think the point Ratiocinator is trying to make is just to be aware of the detrimental effects of some of the foods we eat on a rather frequent basis. Knowing that a cheeseburger is loaded with saturated fat, cholesterol, white bread and a number of other detriments to health doesn't have to mean you'll never eat another cheeseburger. It just means educating yourself, (which you indicate you've already done), and then using the information you've assimilated to make informed choices. The only thing I'd caution you on is accepting "common knowledge" as good information -- often, they're not even related.

His points concerning meat, dairy, poultry and all the rest are well-founded. And most certainly everyone will die of something at some point. The idea from my perspective is to not lead a sickly life before it comes my time to die. When I note that 65%-77% of annual deaths in the United States are attributable to diseases and disorders directly tied to diet, I find that a compelling reason to heed that information and make adjustments to my diet that I feel I can live with. I usually find that the adjustments aren't nearly as difficult as I might have originally imagined them to be.
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Old 18-06.-2007, 05:35 AM   #102
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Default Re: Empty calories

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesstout
I LOL'ed

It's fine to have a good laugh and I suppose if you want, you can completely dismiss the information as being somewhat hilarious. But when you look to a point-by-point comparison of human digestive physiology to the physiology of other animals, it's not at all difficult to objectively categorize humans. Using the 19 most telling points of digestive physiology, we come out squarely in the group of monogastric herbivores. And when we consume as monogastric omnivores, we suffer the same health problems as are presented by herbivorous animals in a number of studies where they are given an omnivorous diet -- they quickly begin to develop atherosclerosis, (a precursor to heart attack, stroke and erectile dysfunction). Note that animals which have a digestive physiology consistent with omnivorism and carnivorism do not display atherosclerosis even when provided with twice the level of saturated fat and cholesterol.

Remember that heart attacks, strokes, osteoporosis and diabetes are not natural. There are some countries where most of the diseases which plague us are all but unknown. And when studies have been conducted to determine the reason for this, genetics are ruled out. It has to do with diet over a prolonged period. Even as we age, if we avoid the foods that cause these things, our chance of experiencing them drops dramatically. The choice is yours but only if you're familiar with the information and choose to take it to heart.
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Old 18-06.-2007, 10:31 AM   #103
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Default Re: Empty calories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratiocinator
We are certainly not carnivores. We are not even omnivores. We are anatomically and physiologically herbivorous.



Meat and milk is toxic to humans and causes all manner of disease. Not many people realize this because disease is treated as a ‘normal’ thing that is unavoidable, and that ‘just happens’! Not many people think very much.

Unethical farmers often feed meat to cows and other natural herbivores. That does not make them carnivorous. Neither does meat in the human diet make us carnivorous.

Basic things such as the length of our entrails, the ph level of our stomach acid, the muscular structure of our jaws, the flatness and shovel-type shape of our teeth. All these things are what make us suited to plants, not meat. A child, when an animal and an apple are placed before it, will eat the apple, not the animal. This is instinctive behaviour.

Read more here:

http://www.earthsave.ca/articles/he...omparative.html

Your diet MAY or MAY NOT make you healther or give you more go. But your personality sux. Have a burger and shake, and you might be a little less stressed.
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Old 18-06.-2007, 06:25 PM   #104
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Default Re: Empty calories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastt
It's fine to have a good laugh and I suppose if you want, you can completely dismiss the information as being somewhat hilarious. But when you look to a point-by-point comparison of human digestive physiology to the physiology of other animals, it's not at all difficult to objectively categorize humans. Using the 19 most telling points of digestive physiology, we come out squarely in the group of monogastric herbivores. And when we consume as monogastric omnivores, we suffer the same health problems as are presented by herbivorous animals in a number of studies where they are given an omnivorous diet -- they quickly begin to develop atherosclerosis, (a precursor to heart attack, stroke and erectile dysfunction). Note that animals which have a digestive physiology consistent with omnivorism and carnivorism do not display atherosclerosis even when provided with twice the level of saturated fat and cholesterol.

Remember that heart attacks, strokes, osteoporosis and diabetes are not natural. There are some countries where most of the diseases which plague us are all but unknown. And when studies have been conducted to determine the reason for this, genetics are ruled out. It has to do with diet over a prolonged period. Even as we age, if we avoid the foods that cause these things, our chance of experiencing them drops dramatically. The choice is yours but only if you're familiar with the information and choose to take it to heart.

from what i understand (and have experienced) we need saturated fat in order to build testosterone

Im interested to know how you account for the higher level of diabetes and lactose intolerance in the African/asian community where a plant based diet is traditional
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Old 19-06.-2007, 06:32 PM   #105
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Default Re: Empty calories

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesstout
from what i understand (and have experienced) we need saturated fat in order to build testosterone

Im interested to know how you account for the higher level of diabetes and lactose intolerance in the African/asian community where a plant based diet is traditional

I'm not familiar with the higher incidence of diabetes but I find that rather interesting. Do you have any more information on the topic? Without having more information on the subject the best I can offer is a pure shot in the dark but I know that in the case of the Hopi Indians, the extreme increase in the rates of diabetes coincided with the adoption of non-native diets which include rather extreme quantities of fat as compared to their more traditional desert diets. This offers a fairly strong suggestion that after centuries of subsisting on a very low fat diet, the sudden switch to the more familiar Western diet which is loaded with fat simply impacted them far more dramatically than it has cultures which transitioned more slowly and less drastically.

As far as testosterone production goes, I've never heard the assertion that saturated fat plays a significant role. I've also never heard that it doesn't. In short, I've never found any material which suggested a correlation one way or the other but obviously you have. What I can offer is that there is a significant portion of the population in many areas where the consumption of saturated fats are quite low and I know of nothing which suggests that testosterone levels are reduced in those areas. Athletic history also shows a rather significant number of Olympic and professional athletes who adhere to a diet significantly lower in saturated fats than the traditional Western diet and they seem to suffer no ill effects or reduced athletic performance. In fact, what few studies I've seen on the subject all suggest that abstaining from the consumption of a diet rich in animal fats and proteins offers one a slight advantage when it comes to tests of endurance and recovery.

As for the higher lactose intolerance, it's not just among African blacks and Asians. If you look at lactose intolerance on a global perspective, you find that western Caucasians are actually the anomaly because we're not so lactose intolerant while most of the world is. Figures vary slightly from source to source but the numbers here are pretty typical;

African Blacks - 95%
Indians - 90%
Asians - 90%
North American Blacks - 75%
Mexican Americans - 75%
Mediterraneans - 60%
North American Whites - 15%

http://lactoseintolerant.org/02_about.html

That said, even more NA Whites are lactose intolerant than the figures show because the level of intolerance ranges from those who can't drink milk at all without severe gastric discomfort to those who can consume a little once in a while without serious discomfort to those who don't even realize that some of their occasional discomfort and gassiness are due to mild lactose intolerance.

Lactose intolerance is actually quite natural. Before we're weaned, our bodies produce a significant quantity of lactase, (the enzyme necessary to digest lactose). About the time we go through weaning, the amount of lactase produced in our digestive system drops. In many, production effectively stops. Others continue to produce a small amount and some produce enough to continue digesting milk sugars throughout their lives. The interesting thing here arises when you take a look at other mammals and other primates. Almost none of them continue to digest milk well after they're weaned. When we look to how milk affects human health, we find that contrary to ads presented by the Dairy Council, most of the effects on health are decidedly detrimental.

So while it seems you're viewing lactose intolerance as a disorder, the evidence suggests fairly strongly, that it is actually adult lactose tolerance which constitutes the disorder. It should be noted that a percentage of people go their entire adult lives with no real idea that they're suffering a digestive problem and yet the inside of the small intestine bleeds constantly, though in minute quantities, for the duration of their adult life due to the irritation which persists from passing undigested lactase through the digestive system.

Last edited by Beastt : 19-06.-2007 at 07:02 PM.
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