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31-03.-2007, 09:12 AM
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#136 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Posts: 670
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
Frank |
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31-03.-2007, 09:14 AM
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#137 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: ID
Posts: 33
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
http://www.lagrange.org/piuma2004.htm Still impressed? Being a relatively poor climber myself, I'm hardly one to criticize. But I look at that results list and conclude that he came in 1st out of exactly 2 category 1 riders. Or did I miss something? Last edited by Laflore : 31-03.-2007 at 09:26 AM. |
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31-03.-2007, 09:22 AM
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#138 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: ID
Posts: 33
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
You should have read the entire post then. |
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31-03.-2007, 10:38 AM
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#139 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Draper, Utah
Posts: 449
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
__________________
blog |
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31-03.-2007, 11:41 AM
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#140 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Posts: 670
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
You might want to check to see how pro cyclists tend to do during the cycling portion of IM events when they compete. But you are not impressed so be it. |
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31-03.-2007, 11:54 AM
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#141 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: ID
Posts: 33
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
Frankly, I don't care about triathletes or how pro cyclists do in triathlon events (and usually retired). You've stated, ad nauseum, about how this or that pro cyclist uses powercranks to enhance their training. I simply wanted to see a photo of one using your cranks, and I find it odd that you can't seem to dig one up after all these years. Is this an unreasonable request? Basically, it seems we just have to take your word for it. |
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31-03.-2007, 05:33 PM
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#142 | |
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Community Team
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newport, South Wales
Posts: 3,830
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
classic. names and your own product spelt wrongly!!! anyway, here's a pic of Magnus with his power cranks on.... just a different sort of power cranks, eh frank!? http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fulls...805&status=True Ric
__________________
http://www.cyclecoach.com |
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01-04.-2007, 02:21 AM
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#143 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Posts: 670
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/defau...llstory&id=4097 but, alas, still no picture |
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03-04.-2007, 04:33 AM
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#144 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 897
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Frank... you really need to lose that 40% claim... it's killing you. it's not just suspect it's impossible that the 40% improvement is related directly to the power cranks... it has to be total improvement.. what you need a is a study that shows the improvement only as it relates to the power cranks directly... if my FTP improved by 40% i would not just break the hour record i would destroy it and no one would be able to touch it for many, many years... but that's not going to happen any time soon... you really need to step away from that 40%... ~5% would be amazing and is within the realm of possbility.
that being said the i think the "push harder" crowd is also out to lunch on this one... - to say that a proper pedalling action is "natural" is... lets just say it's wrong - if i change my pedalling action such that the a greater proportion of the force vector is directed tangental to the crank, my pedalling action will be more effective (i.e. more force goes into turning the crank as opposed to compressing or elongating the crank arm) - if i increase the "Effective Pedalling Range" (see analytic cycling) this will reduce the "Effective Pedalling Force" this seems quite likely to increase the effectiveness of my pedalling by reducing the instantaneous forces exerted by the muscle while maintaining the same ave torque (integrated torque)... or the reverse... increasing ave torque while maintaining the same effective pedalling force - if i in a sense let my legs get out of the way of one another by better coordinating them this would seem to me to be a way to increase the effectiveness of my pedalling - if i adjust my pedalling action to maintian the momentum of my legs especially on the down stroke and past 6 o'clock (this goes against the idea of "pedalling in circles") this would seem to be a way of increasing the effectiveness of my pedalling as well.. again getting out of the way of my legs - if i more effectively use my hamstring during pedaling (most don't) this should as well improve the effectiveness of my pedalling - if i vary my pedalling action such that slightly different muscle groups taxed in slightly different perportions or alternate adjustments leg to leg to stave of cramping it would seem that this would also increase the effectiveness of pedalling but Frank... 40%!! you've got to be kidding... i don't know if your product actually works but EPO is what.. 10-15%? 40% is rediculous and is actually impossible... if you come out with a study that says that power cranks increase sustainable power by ~5% you are laughing... you could say that here is a product that is 1/2 to 1/3 as effective as EPO and it's legal... just get a proper test done! one that issolates the improvement that is directly attributable to the power cranks... |
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03-04.-2007, 05:46 AM
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#145 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Posts: 670
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
And, I might ask why should I only claim a 5% improvement when earlier in this thread (post 128) a customer comes and posts test data showing a 25% improvement in FTP in one year. His post was just ignored by all rather than questioning him as to why he attributed it "all" to the PowerCranks, even though he explained it pretty well, isn't like he is new to the sport. I look forward to his posting his further testing results as he said he would. I claim what the data suggests our average new user will see. The data could possibly be better, as many have stated, but it is what it is and the reports of new users support the claim is about right. If you are an elite I suggest you will see less than 40% because you probably have better form than the average cyclist so you have less room for improvement. But, 5% - that is a no brainer for essentially everyone, including you, whoever you are. |
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03-04.-2007, 06:11 AM
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#146 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 313
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
The post you mention may or may not be legit. If it is legit, good for him. That is one true cyclist that has shown 25% improvement using the product. This is entirely possible. One person can always be an outlier. This is why you need to contract an independet study to control and prove your claims. As for the post. I found several things interesting about it: He just stumbled upon that thread. Yet that was his only post and he just created the user name and that has been his only post. There was not a single wasted line in it. He claims his english was bad but it was pretty good in both reading and writing. Everything that had been pointed out in the past couple of days was covered. He knew Andrew but not you. That seemed extreemly unlikely to me. Then at the very end he it ended like everyone of the positive posts, I do not know why but there has to be something. But again it could be a legit post. There are always outliers in data. |
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03-04.-2007, 06:41 AM
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#147 | |
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Community Team
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newport, South Wales
Posts: 3,830
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
You claimed that a 2nd/3rd category cyclist would see, on average, a ~40% increase in power. I've no idea what cat Dr Spoc is, but as i said previously such a cyclist with such a gain in power would be the world record holder, which is what Dr Spoc said. Ric
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03-04.-2007, 07:02 AM
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#148 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 897
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
but, a newbie or someone who undertakes a structured training schedule is going to have gains in leaps and bounds on the order of 25-40% just from regular dedicated training.. you need to separate what portion is attributable to power cranks and what portion is attributable to a newbie or other athelete just training at all or more or better. i'm actually very interested in the results of a study on a change in pedalling effectiveness directly attributable to using power cranks and like i said, it seem very likely they will show improvement over and above just training normally but the degree of improvement you claim is beyond the realm... that being said i think that if you know what the factors are for effective pedalling you probably don't need power cranks you can just learn how to do it... but power cranks might very well be useful in that their use might automatically force users into a more effective pedalling style... don't know, because you don't have a study that ferrets out what portion of improvement is from training at all, more, better, more regularly, more structured and what portion (if any) is from power cranks... that's it just get a proper study done. P.S. i'm just a middle of the road Masters racer.. and even measly me, with a 40% increase in sustainable power would DESTROY the world hour record and put out of reach of anyone else for many years... that's how out of line that figure is... it doesn't make any sense... much of that 40 or 25% is not maybe, but has to be from just training more or better |
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03-04.-2007, 07:15 AM
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#149 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Posts: 670
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
A 40% increase in maximum power in a 20 minute Conoconi test does not necessarily translate into a 40% increase in 6 hour sustainable power at the same time. I realize this. It seems you should also but it appears you do not. Joaco21 posts a 25% increase in FTP in one season yet, and even though it is clear he feels he rides much more like a world champion now, he holds no delusions this improvement, or even more, should it continue, will turn him into a world champion. He is just trying to get as good a possible and with PC's he has found improvement beyond what he thought was possible. He now has a VO2max higher than Lance in his prime. Does that mean he is as good as Lance? No. It does mean though, I suspect, he is a lot better than when his VO2 max was 70. You think such improvements are impossible. Well, they certainly are if you are afraid to even try. Where is the risk? Point to a single instance of a customer claiming they got slower for trying them. |
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03-04.-2007, 07:36 AM
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#150 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 313
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Re: Poor man's Powercranks? (PPC)
Quote:
People have said time and time again the problem is with your WA 40% claim. Not that your product produces 0% improvement or decline in improvement. People have said time and time again. Commision a study for 6 - 8 months that takes all factors out and isolates your product. Come back with those results. You refuse to do that. What would happen to your sales if you paid the small amount for a study and it said there was a 40% increase in power? What would happen to your sales if it said there was a 5% increase? |
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