Experts only - no "conspiracy theorists", please

FrankBattle

+1 .. much longer.

tonyzackery

Cape Roadster - have you accomplished what I am seeking to do with my body?? If you have, thank you for your input. If not, you've wasted your time. As I mentioned in my headline, I am looking for informed information, not suppositions, thank you.

I fully understand my body is not going to target my biceps, shoulders, chest, and back for muscle loss. I am fully aware that I will have continue to cycle to maintain leg mass while I am losing upper body mass. I have decided that I am not going to any upper body exercises, low weight/high rep or otherwise as that will only serve to maintain the upper body mass. I want to lose the upper body mass, not convert it from a slow twitch composition to fast twitch.

I understand I am looking for a "quick fix" to an issue that has built itself in 30 years of weight training. Nonetheless, with motivation and determination, I know I can reasonably acheive 2/3 of my goal by February.

FrankBattle

Hey Tony, as you have noticed already, at 5% (even if the estimate is too low, you're still low even at 6 - 7%), it is tougher to drop weight without borderline starvation and/or substantial increase in daily caloric expenditure.

I agree that the 2/3 goal is theoretically reachable. That's the standard 3500 calorie per week deficit, which, given where you are for body fat, is more realistic. How are you tracking your expenditure? And I will assume you are going to monitor your daily intake as well .. there are a few resources around to help, if you haven't found one.

tonyzackery

Frank, my bodyfat has tested actually at 4.7% via caliper in 5 zones. I know it's not as accurate as dunk tanking or the other high-dollar methods, but I get your point that at this low fat level it is very difficult to lose weight. The weight that I lose now will be muscle.

I easily track my caloric expenditure by way of my Polar 725x calorie expenditure counter when I'm on the bike, and I have conservatively estimated my BMR (basal metabolic rate) at 2400cals/day. I monitor my intake via less scientific methods (labels on the food items and use of a food scale to measure portion size). I also am very conservative on this side.

I truly believe that I can run a daily calorie deficit of apprx 700 cals/day. Ergo, I can lose a pound every 5 days. With my goal being about 55 days away (hill climb race at the end of February), I should conservatively be 10-11 lbs lighter at that time. That would put my power to weight ratio at 4.3w/kg. That would be competitive in my cat 5 races.

The diet I am using will be low carb and high protein with relatively low fat. I will stick with white meat and fish for the most part. I will eat carbs (relatively small amounts) only during and immediately after exercise. My goal is to burn at least 1000 cals per day via cycling in addition to doing hot yoga classes 5x/week. I'm purposely including a "fudge factor" with regard to the amount of exercise I will do a day for those times when I am not as strict on my diet as I should be.

Wish me luck on my journey and I will continue to post as I go along.

CapeRoadster

Yes, I accomplished it over 25 years ago myself. And I've brought many athletes through the process. You don't seem to understand what I'm getting at. Type I fiber is a different composition than Type II, right? If a bodybuilder/high muscle mass athlete wants to slim down, it's all about the type of exercise performed, in addition to the diet. I think you know a marathoner has a little bit of a different body comp than a running back, no? The problem is that YOU want to retain lower body mass while reducing upper body mass. And none of us knows anything about your medical status, even based on what you wrote.

You say you want to lose "upper body mass". Maybe I misunderstood. Do you want to lose muscle mass or total mass? Do you want to retain upper body strength or lose it? If you want to retain strength and lose mass, than YES, you MUST convert from Type II to Type I fiber, and the ONLY way to do that is to alter upper body exercise patterns and cardiovascular training patterns. And it will not be a quick process. New muscle fiber is at a minimum a 12-week process, and that's only a beginning. If you simply want to lose total mass, just start working out like a marathoner, on a bike or off. That's easy enough.

There is no "quick fix", at least not without drugs. And even then, your body may not respond the way you want. If you believe in a low carb diet, whatever that means, then go ahead and try to get what you want. From my experience, you're not going to get what you want if you need to retain strength, and you're not going to get there quickly and retain strength and/or energy. It's either fast weight loss and loss of strength, or slow fat loss and retetntion of strength. But if you succeed, let us know. I'm a skeptic, for sure, having done it the only way science tells us is possible. But there are "fast responders" and "slow responders" out there; everyone's different. Maybe you're a fast responder. Maybe not.

__________________
I love France. I just hate Toulouse. I'd really hate to lose le Trek.

tonyzackery

Just to clarify - I want to lose upper body mass, which in my case is predominantly muscle rather than fat due to my low body fat percentage. I do not care if I lose upper body strength as I the gains in cycling performance from losing the weight will outweigh the upper body strength loss.

Glad you brought it up, but I am indeed an extremely fast responder and I'm confident I will reach my goal. As I mentioned earlier, I'll post updates on my progress. Thank you for your help.

dockeen

As a leading question, for somone trying to acheive the goals here, is there virtue in playing with the timing of eating, i.e. doing a long workout and NOT eating for a long while after to encourage catabolism?

Wayne

Tapeworm

Tony, I am something in a similar situation, I have a hill climb and road race in March 07 and wish to be a bit lighter for the hill climb. You obviously have a fairly good handle on your diet in relation to energy intake, expenditure etc.

Just a couple of points that may help.

First is that the calorie counter on the Polar is not the most accurate measure. A power meter gives a better indication of the amount of energy actually being put out on the bike. There was talk on one of the other threads about a relatively inexpensive model called the iBike. Anyway, from what I have read, you multiply the total kilojoules output by 4 (the human body on a bike is approx 25% efficient) to give an approximate energy output in kj.

[Warning: conspiracy theory! ] For rapid weight loss another method that I have enquired about but haven't had much feedback on is a system called the "drip" (see earlier thread). Basically you drink a 4:1 carb to protein ratio "drink" in addition to your normal diet. The logic behind this is that your body is constantly "eating" which ups your base metabolic rate. Because of the continual intake of carbs you don't have the same problem as a low carb diet. That's about all I know, though it could be worth reading up on.

Food for thought.
(come on, that was a good one!)

__________________
Ride like you mean it

tonyzackery

Current progress: 188lbs - down 4lbs. Got 8-13lbs to go. The past week of low carb was difficult to maintain! Very difficult to train with any intensity and mental concentration was difficult at times. Had a couple lapses but made up the difference with more time on the bike.

This week I'm switching diet to low protein (about 1/4 gram/day per lb of body weight) while still maintaining caloric deficit of about 700 per day. This will allow more intense workouts. There should be enough available amino acids in my bloodstream to maintain leg mass, but the upper body muscle mass should take a hit.

I've researched that constantly changing up diet protocols maintains each diet's effectiveness as your body is not allowed time to adjust to the different nutritional environment. I'll keep you posted as to my progress...

xbgs351

So why does the low-weight/high rep upper body exercise called swimming make my upper body bulk up so much?

FrankBattle

Perhaps you do said exercise more than once a week?

FrankBattle

Outstanding!

xbgs351

Two or three time per week. I'd prefer to suffer when riding uphill from carrying extra uperbody weight, than to suffering from back pain.

CapeRoadster

You're starting to make me a believer! That's awesome progress! But have you been able to maintain power on the bike?

__________________
I love France. I just hate Toulouse. I'd really hate to lose le Trek.