Neuromuscular Power Changes

richvoss

Lucy,
I'm telling you. You ought to come up to Colorado Springs this summer and try out the track!

You could end up on a bike like that someday

Lucy_Aspenwind

Hey Rich

I would like to though it is complicated as we discussed before, me having a life, career, and practice here. Well that and being old!

I let a friend of mine who started riding a few weeks ago, take a spin on my bike. She put out a healthy 13-14 w/kg in 5s, and asked me about track racing and lifting. I'm not a coach so I don't know if someone with that level has any future on the track though it seems she is interested.

The real problem, either way, is the lack of a velodrome here. I found an article in the paper about plans to build one. Unfortunately someone knowledgeable in the local scene (a coach) told me it has been talked about for years, but nothing has been done.

richvoss

I know it would be tough to do but you ought to at least give it a try some weekend for kicks. Bring your friend! Her 5 sec power puts her in the "very good eg. Cat 2" category on Andy's power profile. She might have some fun on the Track too.

That track in your town has been rumored for quite a few years now. It is in the "I'll believe it when I see it" file.

Lucy_Aspenwind

Rick, I have a couple of rather amateurish questions, so I'll ask you those over PM/e-mail and spare the forum a further show of my naïveté for all things track related...

acoggan

IIRC, you said it was 0.6 m, didn't you?

http://www.ais.org.au/talent/cycling.asp

BTW, Dave Martin (the chief physiologist for the AIS, who works closely with the cycling programs) gave a presentation at the ACSM this year in which he showed how these ergometer tests compared to actual on-bike performances. The bottom line was that many, if not all, of the women they recruited via this talent ID program had problems (at least initially) producing their true maximal power while actually riding. Obviously, though, you've already got that part licked...

Lucy_Aspenwind

Yes I did, 60 cm.

Are there searches like this in America? Unfortunatley the only talent searches I hear about in the States are those for rather incredulous singing competitions!

Along with motivation, I'm afraid I'd not meet one of the very first points of the criteria:

"Women aged between 18 and 28 with 4 or more years training background in a sport other than sprint cycling (e.g., BMX, sprinting, field hockey, netball, basketball, gymnastics, weightlifting, volleyball, rowing, judo, soccer, body building, etc.)."

I'm just another fat, pimply-faced 30-something Ph.D

acoggan

Good to know 1) that your data fit with those from the AIS, and 2) my memory still works!



Not really...the closest thing would be the Talent Pool selection procedures, but those essentially assume that you already have sufficient racing experience to "show your best stuff":

http://www.usacycling.org/forms/sel...rack_talent.pdf

(In particular, the following would be most applicable to you:

"2007 Talent Pool Time Standards – All times must be set at the ADT Event Center, Carson, CA
Flying 200m 11.84
Standing 500m 35.98")

Lucy_Aspenwind

We get better with age right? Er, well, so I keep telling myself.

Even my newbie girlfriend meets the AIS criteria. Then again, I only hang out with other, fellow fast-twitchers


Andy I don’t know much about track racing, but IMO the Aussie’s have got it right vis-à-vis what the American’s are doing. Essentially the guidelines in the link basically require someone to be a fairly accomplished track racer – and especially in the women’s fields - the potential talent pool shrinks enormously.

That as opposed to looking for folks who have the right characteristics - which would almost by definition, be a much larger group of people who could easily be, if they are interested, trained to succeed.


I can even use my own situation as an example – my sprint numbers seem good, but go figure, I’ve never even ridden a fixie and am a good 600 km from the nearest track. Chances that I'll show up in CA next July and turn in an 11-second 200m? Slim to none.

RapDaddyo

I wouldn't discount the value of developing at least your physiological capabilities to do track events on the road. And, as to fixies, they are really cheap. A buddy just bought the time-honored Bianchi Pista for <$700, including a front brake. Yes, there is the banking and you're not going to learn tactics on the road, but I would think you could tune your engine pretty well with a fixie on the road, assuming you can find a flat stretch.

daveryanwyoming

No doubt an athlete could train the engine away from a track, but trying to turn a national class time in a particular track event seems difficult at best without time on a track. Take something as simple as a flying 200, you've got to figure out your wind up pace, how long, how fast, learning to ride up close to the rail as you gain speed. Figuring out where to drop and how steep, when to sit, how to finish and how not to get pitched over the bars by your fixie while shutting down from a max effort sprint. And that's just the flying 200, a relatively simple event. Add bumping elbows in turn four, double jumps, cat and mouse trackstands in a match sprint and it becomes a lot tougher.

Working the engine is great, but at some point track or road racing is the common intersection of physiology, bike handling, experience, confidence and tactics. Someone with a 6 W/Kg FTP might still be challenged with their first twisty crit if they've never ridden with groups and cornered with fifty to a hundred other riders at speed, unless of course they simply get away at the gun

I think Lucy hit the nail on the head, the selection system is designed to find experienced riders as opposed to uncovering potential. Face it, cycling has always been an underground sport in the states. Parents know all about little league and youth soccer but the average kid doesn't know a lot about racing as a sport. There really aren't many programs out there designed to find and nurture cycling talent. Makes you wonder how many potential world class cylists were never noticed......

-Dave
P.S. Lucy, try to get to a track with a development program and rental bikes, even if it's just for a weekend to check it out it might really open up some possibilities.

richvoss

I've been telling Lucy she needs to do that. There is a track a 5 hour drive from where she lives and they have a very good program for beginners and rental bikes. I even know someone personally that would love to show her around and get her feet wet....(me). Are you listening Lucy?

Like you mention, even for a weekend.

Billsworld

Free coaching from a World champ....nice deal!!

Alex Simmons

Well since Rupert Murdoch became an American, we've got room for one more

Lucy_Aspenwind

I'm not going to say I am anywhere near world-class, though the numbers seem pretty good. I mean like I said, I have never even ridden a fixie and would almost certainly go over the bars without some training. Seems the program here is for elite people already on the track, rather than those potential elites that are sitting around doing whatever we do with our time!

Sure, I could go down to the bike trail by the river (about the only place it is totally flat here) and crudely measure out 200m or 500m, then have a go at it. Other than collecting some data, it would probably have little bearing on what really happens in a 200m. Let me be even more succinct, I didn't even know what a 200m sprint race was like until I read about it on wiki about 2 hours ago!




lol - but, but, I'm not a yank mate


Maybe I'll have someone I know go up there and tell me what it is like. You know, advance warning and all