Flash: Pope Blasts Islam

Carrera

Not in Germany. Fascism is making a big comeback in some parts of Europe.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

2FAST4U

This is history you are referring to here again....I think my point is fairly clear on that.

Do you live in the southern United States? I have several relatives there and what you say here is not true. Nor is anything like this forced on them with swords drawn or calling for a head tax.


If this is your position then I hate to inform you that you are wrong. Please provide news clips, literature or any other evidence that there are religions in the U.S. or a world-wide movement calling for the sawing off of Muslim heads...If you can do this craphopper, then your point may become fairly clear.....and the argument that it occured in the past doesn't cut it....Just like slavery...it happened, it was wrong, it isn't U.S. policy today so let it go already...there are no slave owners currently living today so you can't blame me or anyone else for that now........

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[/b]drinking ale from a barrel[/b]

Carrera

I think they're going to show a documentary on this kids for Jesus movement they discovered in some part of the U.S.A. It's run by some woman who wants to teach kids to be soldiers for Jesus. I don't know if it's an American made documentary or not.
To address your point further: I have a friend in L.A. who was schooled in a convent school. Although nobody had their head sawn off, my friend witnessed cruelty and sadism in this school on the part of the holy sisters. Some of the male students left the schools emotionally damaged, one winding up in a mental institution.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying all nuns are sadists by any means. What I am saying is that these particular sisters based their acts of sadism on scripture.
The same goes for orphans who were sent to convent schools in Australia. The nuns beat them with sticks and made them have cold showers and work till they dropped.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

snyper0311

2 Fast, I think what Carrera is bringing up with the "Comeback" statements is the recent issues in the US where Christians argued their point of excluding "Creatonism" from being taught in schools. US Christians argued that both sides of the coin should be taught in schools. With the recent political correctness that has been forced on schools, Christians felt that Creatonism needed to be shown as an alternitive point.

Carrera

Time to adopt Wurm tactics and do a quick copy and paste job. This is what I referred to:

“Without taking any sides, the Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady film, focuses on a bunch of little children who attend reverend Becky Fischer's 'Kids on Fire' summer camp in order to be groomed and trained to become the next soldiers in the army of God. They learn, under the close guidance of the reverend, that 'science doesn't prove anything' and that they are to be the future rulers of The daily activities in the camp include, besides the now usual children-oriented summer games, speaking in foreign languages and smashing coffee mugs with the word 'government' imprinted on them. They are forced to pledge they will fight against abortion and to publicly confess their childish impure thoughts.At one point, the camp director even admits that she admires the way Islamic children are bred to give their life for their country and hints that this might actually be the purpose of the 'Kids On Fire' camp. And it's not her and the reverend's ideas that are most disturbing, but the way the two directors manage to capture its influence on the children's behavior.
For example, 11-year-old Tori admits that she loves to dance to 'Christian rock', 9-year-old Rachel feels the need to walk up to strangers in the street and 'evangelize' them and all of them willingly accept to be placed on the Capitol steps with tape over their mouths as a sign of protest against abortion.
And, yet, all along the runtime of the documentary, the directors' input or influence cannot be sensed by the viewer. The two shun away from passing any kind of judgment and limit themselves only to presenting the real facts, about a real group of people living in complete isolation from the mainstream in North Dakota."

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

wolfix

There is some of that going on.....I'm not sure if it is a large enough to call it a "movement", and I don't think it is just contained in the south either.

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"I rule my world with a cellphone."

2FAST4U

LA is not part of the Southern United States. Convent school is not a public school. Not sure if you refer to "Catholic School" which parents pay to have their kids sent there and beat with sticks...How long ago did this happen? Haven't seen that sort of behavior at Catholic Schools in my locality. Second, I have a nephew who goes to a "Southern Baptist" school and the only thing they wanted him to do was to burn his Alternative Rock CD's.....but they let him keep his ears.....

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[/b]drinking ale from a barrel[/b]

Carrera

http://national.citysearch.com/prof...jesus_camp.html
"Pastor Becky Fischer holds a summer camp for kids at Devil's Lake in North Dakota. She's training Christian soldiers for God's Army, and Jesus Camp follows three white home-schooled Missouri children--Levi (now 13) , Rachael (now 10) and Tory (now 11)--through the camp from a year ago, to where they are now in their indoctrination. Filmmakers Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady present the religious brainwashing techniques in a slow, deliberate manner, as the evangelical Christian adults seem to transform the kids into Stepford-like children who spew the word of God for less than altruistic reasons. The children are shown being trained to bring Christ back to America, and use their ''Prophetic Gifts,'' of which they are told they all possess. There are also scenes of children blessing a cardboard figure of President Bush, saying prayers for conservative Supreme Court justice nominees and 7-year-olds in painted faces dancing spiritual war dances, believing prayer can fix their malfunctioning film projector. The filmmakers try in vain to remain objective, but it's impossible.
Acting
As a documentary, the participants of Jesus Camp come across as realistic as they can even though they are aware of the camera at all times. Some of the scenes seem to play to the cameras, in disturbing reality, as the angelic faces are moved to tears by their religious fervor, or turned into unworldly contortions as they speak in tongues. Levi wants to be a mega-church pastor, speaking to congregations of thousands, while Rachael wants to be a missionary in far-off places and is bent on recruiting her neighbor. Tory spreads her message through dance and attends anti-abortion rallies. Pastor Becky is also shown in revealing moments, especially as she obsesses more about her appearance than Tammy Faye Baker would."

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

2FAST4U

Yes, well, I'm not a fan of "political correctness" in schools....let children be children and don't limit their education with political correctness....

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[/b]drinking ale from a barrel[/b]

Carrera

If your point is that radical Islamics are currently showing themselves to be more extreme than Jews and Christians in these modern times, I take your point.
What I'm saying, though, is this Islamic extremism is a fairly recent phenomenon since if you look at Islamic leaders like Malcolm X, he didn't pose a direct violent threat to the U.S.A. - neither did the Nation Of Islam. They stood for civil rights and peaceful expression of their religion. It's only over the last decade that militant Islam has posed a genuine threat to freedom of expression with terrorism thrown in. Yes, it has to be dealt with somehow but no it's not unique.
I think education is the best means of combating the extremism. Being moslem isn't really the problem as opposed to education and tolerance through education.
If Moslems, Jews and Christians were educated to at least understand the ideas behind their respective religions, I doubt we'd be seeing so much violence. I mean, Rageh Omar is a moslem yet he knows a lot about the history of Judaism and Christianity and could probably defend his beliefs without resorting to shouting "death to infidels" in the streets of London.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

2FAST4U

I hear ya but it doesn't matter. We (christians) could educate ourselves until we are blue in the face and it doesn't matter to these whackos. I donot believe in metophysics and I'm not about to alter my personality to change someone elses behavior... All these loons need to do is shut up, practice their religion and stop the violence...If they did, we wouldn't be having this debate. Second, I would feel the same way if we were talking about born again christians as well....Just so happens, they are not the ones shooting nuns in the back!

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Carrera

I can't come up with an answer as to why it is acts of inhumanity are so often linked to religion. Sometimes it's Islam that's used as the excuse but there are times when people have used Christianity as a pretext - the Ku-Klux-Klan and many slavers were self-professed Christians.
At any rate, rather than ranting and raving in the streets and going on about Jihad Moslems could have calmly and rationally pointed out that Christians have burnt people at the stake, persecuted pagans and Jews and wiped out ethnic groups in South America.
Rather than point out Islam has shown itself to be tolerant in the past modern moslems fell into a pit by burning images of the Pope and taking to the streets in some cases.

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"Everybody has a philosophy. However, what philosophy you have is a matter of choice, and most people don't make a conscious choice with regard to what philosophy they accept."

limerickman

Hold up here.

You chimed in with your "for the record, I support the Pope's comments".
You chimed in with this "vote of support" after the Popes initial addresson 12/09/06, but before any further statement was made by the Pope on 17/09/06.








Listen - you didn't understand the Popes speech at Regensberg.





Do you know who is responsible for the murder of the nun ?

If person responsible for this murder should be brought to justice - then the full rigours of the law should apply.
I hope that in this case the culprit will be brought to justice.

And that's right you posted your initial comments BEFORE the murder of that nun.




No intiating a debate/argument with you.
Just pointing out the fact that you haven't got a clue.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

limerickman

Immaterial.

The Pope stated on 17/09/06 that his comments in his speech at 12/09/06, do not reflect his personal views on Islam.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.