Page 3 - Floyd Landis Vindicated!

15-09.-2006, 03:23 AM

#31

helmutRoole2

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Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanspeer

In a recent issue of Bicycling Magazine they have a relatively in-depth interview with him. In it they ask him for an explanation of how he could have performed so incredibly the day after that legendary stage 16 where he performed so poorly. His explanation makes sense. He said that with his power meter he was able to estimate how much more he could give on climbs considering the distance remaining in the stage, and could pace himself accordingly because of it. He then pointed out clearly that his climbing pace (feet per minute?) was actually LESS than that of prior stages, and that on at least one climb during stage 17, at least one other rider was performing better than him in terms of feet per minute. He also pointed out that the reason he looked so incredible that day wasn't so much because he was riding so incredibly, but that the other riders were riding so poorly for a chunk of the stage.

Think about it: Landis bombs on stage 16. He comes back on stage 17 and starts going extremely hard and begins regaining the 9 minutes lost - in relation to the other riders. He's watching his power meter, knowing what his max output is and paces himself accordingly. The other riders, knowing how badly he bombed in the prior stage don't take him too seriously, thinking there's no way he can maintain the pace he is going at and unintentionally allow him to gain the momentum he needed to come back. He's not necessarily riding stronger than he did in prior stages, but looks incredible when comparing himself against the other riders based on his solid performance in stage 17 in contrast to the previous stage, and when compared to the un-wise riding of the others in stage 17.

Yes, yes, but the simpler explanation would be, he doped.

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15-09.-2006, 03:38 AM

#32

ryanspeer

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Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated!

Quote:

Originally Posted by helmutRoole2

Yes, yes, but the simpler explanation would be, he doped.

. . . as the media would love for you to believe wholeheartedly. That sells newspapers, magazines, and draws television viewers. Simple marketing. The media doesn't make much money by spreading good news.

15-09.-2006, 03:50 AM	#33
jhuskey Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Great Smoky Mountains, TN USA Posts: 6,518	Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated! The sad news is that somewhere between 88 and 95% of the US population doesn't care about the outcome or disposition of Landis or pro-cycling. This is my estimate and not based on science, but I don't believe I am way off. If anything I am be geneous in estimating the general apathey. Hardly anyone cares. __________________ Whenever I can't get excited about riding I just fantasize about someone else's bike.

15-09.-2006, 03:52 AM

#34

helmutRoole2

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Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanspeer

Oh I do love a media conspiracist. Here's my standard reply to media conspiracist besides, "you're being ignorant."

...Anyway, back to the issue, which is, how people perceive the inner workings of the media, particularly mainstream newspapers and magazines. I've worked as a reporter and editor for daily newspapers and weekly/monthly magazines around the USA and I've sat through hours of editorial meetings (called budgets) and I've never heard anyone say, "okay people, let's figure out how we can spin the news today." It doesn't happen.

Newspaper reporters and editors, once they rise to the level of LA Times -- and even before that -- are not biased. You're going to have to take my word on this. If they're biased, they get fired. It's a matter of ethics, which starts in J101 and in every college journalism class there after. If they're biased, and secretly grinding an ax in their reporting, it'll be obvious and the editor or publisher will give them the boot.

Don't get the news pages confused with op/ed pages where anything goes. That's why, on bigger newspapers, reporters and section editors don't write op/ed pieces. (side note: on NY Times newspapers, the op/ed office is separated from the rest of the newsroom). It's an obvious conflict of interest. Small town weekly newspapers, you'll see reporters and section editors writing op/ed pieces due to labor shortages, but it's still wrong. Bigger newspapers, it doesn't happen. Reporters report. They don't spin. If they have opinions, which they do, those opinions should not be perceivable to the reader. If they are, they're fired.

Now, do reporters and editors make mistakes? All the time. And why? Because they're thinking about punching out, or they get bad information, or because they don't have a firm handle on the information or a grasp of the situation, like the case with LA Times. The newsroom is like any other work place. People make mistakes for a variety of reasons. When someone down at the Ford plant installs a part wrong, is that a conspiracy? Mistakes happen. People start thinking about punching out or they just get sloppy. There's no Rush Limbaugh or Air America media conspiracy going on. That's just a bunch of crap to sell radio advertising.

It's over simplification to believe that the reporters and editors for the LA Times have it in for Lance and that they're willing to prostitute their ethics so they can make money for their newspaper or work a book deal. Same thing with the French press. It's obvious jingoism to say that, just because Lance, an American, won the Tour, a French race, that the French media is out to get him (side note: they never went after LeMond). It makes me cringe when Lance alludes to that nonsense like he did` repeatedly at the ESPY awards last night. He's playing to jingoistic, none-thinking Americans because, really, aside from those in the cycling community, that's his fan base.

Now, about TV news. Look, if you get all your news-related information from the boob tube, you get what you get. TV news, by in large, caters to people of average intelligence, and in America, that means average folks encumbered with buying power. These people aren't thinking about the intricacies of world or sporting politics. They're thinking about what kind of golf clubs to buy or the color of their new kitchen cabinets or how much horsepower that new riding lawnmower has. They don't have time to get mired in details about two big fat messy wars much less whether LA doped.

Come on. Drop the media conspiracy crap.

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15-09.-2006, 03:56 AM

#35

helmutRoole2

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Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhuskey

The sad news is that somewhere between 88 and 95% of the US population doesn't care about the outcome or disposition of Landis or pro-cycling.
This is my estimate and not based on science, but I don't believe I am way off.
If anything I am be geneous in estimating the general apathey.
Hardly anyone cares.

By the time his case is run up the chain of command the American public will be, "Floyd? Floyd Who? Tour de What?"

Cycling, a mainstream sport it ain't.

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15-09.-2006, 04:05 AM	#36
jhuskey Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Great Smoky Mountains, TN USA Posts: 6,518	Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated! It is sadly true that cycling is a back burner sport,a sport that almost anyone can participate in on some level. Of course it is much easier to watch football,NASCAR and drink beer beside those tiny little bike seats make it hard to pass gas. __________________ Whenever I can't get excited about riding I just fantasize about someone else's bike.

15-09.-2006, 11:03 AM

#37

Chuck Jazz

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Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhuskey

It is sadly true that cycling is a back burner sport,a sport that almost anyone can participate in on some level.
Of course it is much easier to watch football,NASCAR and drink beer beside those tiny little bike seats make it hard to pass gas.

Yes your estimates are geneorous regarding American cycling enthusiasts! Probably closer to 2 or 3% of the American populous will remember Floyds Name by Christmas. It will be "Oh isn't he that guy you know the one who used steriods to win in that Europian race thingy. You know the ride around Paris or something like that...."It is sad and this is why i believe the eurpoians are sooooo pissed when Americans win the Tdf. Oh well, I still hope he is innocent and believe for the sake of the sport on a whole bunch of levels.

15-09.-2006, 05:50 PM

#38

fauxpas

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Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Jazz

It is sad and this is why i believe the eurpoians are sooooo pissed when Americans win the Tdf.

You're a git. If this is true, then don't show up... Pull all yanks out of euro cycle sport... Having yanks and yank brands in international cycling, truely makes it international...

In the '80s, USA track cycling team at the olympics had million dollar bikes made by nasa and a blood swapping caravan... The team would sit in the van with their blood being constantly run through a machine till the very last second before the race. This was legal at the time, and shows yanks don't mind being inovators...

ppl don't want yanks not to win, they just hate the over-patriotic denial inherent in yanks that automatically says landis musta been framed and setup...

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15-09.-2006, 07:31 PM

#39

hillmonster

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Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated!

Quote:

Oh well, I still hope he is innocent and believe for the sake of the sport on a whole bunch of levels.

The guy is guilty as hell. If they say he's innocent or dismiss he case on technical grounds it will be even more damaging to the sport, to say that a man who clearly cheated is being let off and allowed to keep his title.

15-09.-2006, 07:52 PM

#40

jhuskey

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Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated!

Quote:

Originally Posted by hillmonster

You won't find one post I have made defending Landis,however I believe everyone has the right to due process.
Even you!
Convict first them and then hang em!

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15-09.-2006, 09:47 PM	#41
BullGod Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 470	Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated! The saddest thing about the whole Landis affair is that it now seems to have come down to "The French tampered with the sample" for those believing Floyd is innocent. It's pretty pathetic for people to start insinuating that it has something to do with Iraq or anti-Americanism in France too. Get a life. Looking at it rationally the Landis positive really fu&*ed the Tour as far as credibility is concerned. There has even been talk in French politics of cancelling it in the future. The "tampered sample brigade" should never underestimate just how important the Tour is culturally and economically in France, and how disgusted and, frankly, worried all the Frenchmen in charge of the Tour were when Landis's test result came through. This scandal puts something much more important than Floyd's career and integrity in peril, and the idea that the French would deliberately sabotage their own national sporting showpiece just to stop an American winning is ridiculous.

15-09.-2006, 10:05 PM

#42

Felt_Rider

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Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullGod

clip.........
Looking at it rationally the Landis positive really fu&*ed the Tour as far as credibility is concerned. ......clip

Would you say that it falls primarily on Landis or doesn't the pre race scandal of Ullrich and others also taint the tour as well? To me the tour started off as a disappointment and the ending just made it all the more sour, but I did enjoy watching parts of it anyway.

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Last edited by Felt_Rider : 15-09.-2006 at 10:11 PM.

15-09.-2006, 10:12 PM

#43

fauxpas

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Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider

...or doesn't the pre race scandal of Ullrich and others also taint the tour as well?

Ullrich and others didn't race... Landis did, and made insane comeback, and got busted... just a lil different to ulrich and basso

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15-09.-2006, 10:16 PM

#44

jhuskey

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Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider

Cycling as a whole has been tainted. If you don't believe me then ask some of the riders that are trying to find sponsorship and look at how many sponsor have dropped out.
There are many ways for large companies to spend money and they can find another sport.
Sad times!

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15-09.-2006, 10:18 PM	#45
BullGod Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 470	Re: Floyd Landis Vindicated! That's why the Landis affair hit so hard - it was supposed to be the Tour of redemption to redeem the sport of cycling after Operation Puerto....and then things got even worse. I think we can draw two conclusions - 1) Riders who want to win the hardest races probably dope, Americans too. 2) The "red blooded", SUV driving, Bible bashing, war hungry, ultra-patriotic God Bless America attitude has nothing to do with cycling and doesn't belong in a rational debate about whether or not a man took drugs to win a bike race. Go and cheer at a lethal execution or something...

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