Page 15 - What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

30-08.-2006, 05:12 AM

#211

limerickman

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by nns1400

That "budget surplus" was bullshit. That was a "projected" surplus, based on the tech bubble continuing, which everyone knew it wouldn't.

nns1400,

The Federal Budget Surplus at the end of 2000 was $250 billion.
That figure isn't a projection - the figure was published by your own State agency, US Treasury, in 2001 for the year 2000 and represents the difference between goverment income and goverment expenditure, dear.

The US treasury is not a political entity and is not partisan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nns1400

The government was going into recession as of March 2001. I don't think even GWB could have ruined everything in 3 months.

Was your economy going in to recession?

That's funny because the US Treasury reported a suplus for 2001 of $94 billion.
2001 was the year Bush came in to office.

But Bush managed to squander that legacy : let's look at the Treasury stats :

It's interesting to note that the US Federal Budget deficit for

2002 = $230 billion (that's a further deficit of $126 billion in one year).
2003 = $396 billion ( that's another further deficit in one year of $166 billion)

Oh dear.

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morelike hypocrisy.

30-08.-2006, 05:29 AM

#212

limerickman

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillM

Yes he raised taxes....and much of the tax revenue generated came from inflated and falsified corporate income reports.

Bill, extra tax that was generated through income taxes between 1993-1995 : not through corporate taxation.

Increasing taxes in themselves is ineffective - unless it's accompanied by good fiscal control, Bill.
That's why the goverment went on strike, Bill in 1994/1995, 'cause Clinton ringfenced taxation to clear down GH Bush's deficit from 1988-1992.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillM

The Fed was headed by Greenspan until very recently too. Same economic policies.

Actually different economic policies, Bill.

If you look at deficits from 1980-1992 : America was in debt throughout.
Ne'er a surplus in sight, Bill, for any of those years.

1991 deficit was $266 billion.

Clinton made it policy to wipe out Bush's deficit : and did so by 1997.
Greenspan backed Clintons policy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillM

Can you say 9/11? Do you think that and a war might have had an affect?

Sept 11th : was what 5 years ago now.

5 years Bill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillM

Job Exportation. Thanks Bill.....yet you blame Bush for it.

Bill - wrong end of the stick, I'm afraid.

GATT opened up markets in to which the USA could gain access - markets the USA could export to, without tariffs.
That's not exporting jobs - it's creating jobs for US workers based in the USA.
That's why your economy did so well from 1995-2000 : lots of work for US based workers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillM

Limerick...you really don't understand our country do you? Where do you get your stuff...Wikipedia?

Bill, I find Financial Times/Economist/Moody's/Bloomberg/Sunday Times, WSJ,
all excellent references for economic and corporate data, as well as my own professions monthly/annual publications.

30-08.-2006, 06:07 AM

#213

nns1400

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmc

My point exactly. My ancestry is irish. nns1400 may think differently had she gone through Andrew or Katrina and rec'd the brunt of what those storms had to offer

If you had read my post you would have seen that I did. At least my parents did. And my aunt and uncle and scores of other people I know very well, most of whom lost everything but the shirts on their backs.

My folks had quite a bit of damage but could save their house; they still had to get out because their town was wiped out and they are too old to live in those conditions. My uncle died a few months after the Hurricane, mostly due to the stress they were under after their house was gutted and will probably have to be torn down, and they lost everything. So your smiley face is a bit inappropriate. Everything for miles and miles of coast line is completely gone. I have been through the mud and the debris and the tears. The line about the government and the bear is a direct quote from someone living in the FEMA trailer park in Long Beach, Mississippi, which has been a debacle. You need to do whatever it takes to avoid government assistance in an emergency. The "free" stuff does come at a price.

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30-08.-2006, 06:08 AM

#214

nns1400

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebaby

[QUOTE=nns1400 I come from a long line of people who are too proud (Scottish Highlanders)

Me too.They were all cattle and horse thieves.My English ancestors probably hanged a few of them.

[/QUOTE]
I didn't say they weren't too proud to steal

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30-08.-2006, 12:15 PM

#215

davidmc

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by nns1400

Do you know where the $ from government assistance originates

Taxes that YOU have paid. Are you not entitled to some of it. You are not totally self sufficient as you utilize public resources such as roads, water supplies, electrical grids, ect... Do you despise the government to such an extent that you don't use any of the aforementioned

You would of course, have to dig your own well for water, power your house w/ solar or wind energy, and walk or ideally ride a bike every where you go (not on publicly financed roads mind you). methinks you may own a SUV or three

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Last edited by davidmc : 30-08.-2006 at 12:22 PM.

30-08.-2006, 12:18 PM

#216

davidmc

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

Naw, Bill, - your goverment's statistics show that Clinton's management of your economy was superb.
Enron, MCI - don't figure in your goverment stat's.

Historical low unemployment (3.5%)
Historical budget surplus ($200 billion - leaving office)
Historical trade suplus ($30 billion suprlus of exports/imports).
Strong US currency (trading at parity with Euro and stronger than sterling and Yen).
Historical expansion in GDP/GNP.

Agreed & this was only realized because a 3rd party candidate ran on the unacceptability of our long-running debt/deficit. So, although Clinton raised taxes to get our financial house in order resulting in a quasi-conservative fiscal policy, which was admirable because the repubs couldn't or wouldn't it was to appease a segment of the population outraged by overspending (me being part of that constituency). This is what outrages me so much about Bush. He trumpets tax cuts during a time of a war (Iraq-voluntary war) of his own making essentially bankrupting our country

Do you remember who that candidate was that insisted on federal financial responsibility

I do.

Last edited by davidmc : 30-08.-2006 at 12:27 PM.

30-08.-2006, 02:52 PM

#217

Wurm

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by nns1400

Still not gettin' the bank robber reference, but as to this comment, I believe the Dems want the disenfranchised to stay disenfranchised. It's their bread and butter, voter wise. You think they care about poor people? Their programs have not made anyone not be poor anymore; they enculturate it. They've wrecked the public school system, making it nearly impossible for anyone to rise out of it.

Yes, I would be too proud. I come from a long line of people who are too proud (Scottish Highlanders), who are related to a line of people who are government parasites. I know first hand how it works, and I would rather dig ditches than take money, or heaven help me, "assistance" from the government. Ask anyone who went through Hurricane Katrina how much government assistance is worth -- the saying is popular again that if you see me being attacked by a bear, please ask the government to help the bear! (Yes, my family members went through it).

Tax deductions allow me to keep MY OWN friggin' money, david, that I earned. They don't take it from another person's earnings and give it to me. I have to pay to send my kids to private school and still pay taxes on schools I don't use, because they are unsafe and incompetent. I don't take much from the govt. And I would have NO problem with getting rid of middle-class welfare like college loans because it isn't the govt's job to help me pay for college or anything else. They reel in everyone they can with some kind of program so that if anyone objects to high taxes, they can threaten their personal program. Works every time. Meanwhile they piss it all away!!!!!!! Government is the least efficient entity in the universe.

As I said: self-absorbed and myopic.

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31-08.-2006, 05:54 AM	#218
davidmc Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: metro dc USA Posts: 3,394	Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously President (King) Bush III Attached Thumbnails $Click image for larger version Name: R_Z~,~FE+V1DH-C,RJ{YUV.gif Views: 8 Size: 30.8 KB$ __________________ I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death. George Carlin US comedian and actor (1937 - )

31-08.-2006, 06:12 AM

#219

nns1400

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmc

Do you know where the $ from government assistance originates

You're awfully confused. I didn't SAY I was self-sufficient. I said the government wastes money. Their programs are inefficient. They blackmail you with things like roads, etc., because the only way they can continue their pork is to attach it to things that people have to have. Their "assistance" can be a burden in the end, as it has been for many who survived Katrina. What is confusing about that?

When the govt wants to "help", it f --ks everything up worse than before they started.

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31-08.-2006, 11:43 AM

#220

davidmc

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by nns1400

When the govt wants to "help", it f --ks everything up worse than before they started.

How would you characterize a gift of $110,000,000,000 to the gulf coast area

Granted, a goodly portion of that will be eaten up for administrative costs & red tape but its better than nothing. Courtesy of the Good ol' U.S. of A. federal government.

31-08.-2006, 04:45 PM

#221

Wurm

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by nns1400

I said the government wastes money.

That's about the only thing you've said that's correct.

Biggest Waste of Gov't Monies to Date: Iraq conflict/defense spending during Chimpy McFlightsuit's regime.

2nd Biggest Waste: Homeland "Security".

3rd Biggest: Tax giveaways & corporate welfare.

Given that "your" tax money has been pissed away so blatantly and you claim to be so upset about it, why aren't you marching on Wash, D.C. leading a tax-payer's revolt, nns??

31-08.-2006, 08:30 PM

#222

nns1400

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmc

How would you characterize a gift of $110,000,000,000 to the gulf coast area

Granted, a goodly portion of that will be eaten up for administrative costs & red tape but its better than nothing. Courtesy of the Good ol' U.S. of A. federal government.

Most of the actual, practical help down there has been donated. By charities and church groups. Most of the up to your knees in the mud, back-breaking work and feeding people is done by ordinary citizens in their little church vans, going down there and sleeping in tents and giving way more than you could possibly imagine. The govt takes a year to give away their stupid trailers they have sitting in Arkansas, and I won't go into how the entire thing was handled. My point was that you would be better off using your own money or begging or borrowing it to get your own trailer and put it where you want and sell it when you're done, than to depend on the govt. People should not depend on the govt, as it is a massive, creaking bureacracy. I think it is appropriate for some tax money to be used for rebuilding infrastructure there, as it is gone. There are no bridges, and HWY 90 is half washed away. But of course, they aren't expected to finish the first bridge until the end of 2007.

It is not radical to suggest that the government is bloated and wastes money and handles things worse than normal people would on their own.

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31-08.-2006, 08:31 PM

#223

nns1400

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wurm

Wow, that would work!

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31-08.-2006, 09:23 PM

#224

stevebaby

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by nns1400

When the govt wants to "help", it f --ks everything up worse than before they started.

Corporations such as Enron are much more efficient.Halliburton,KBR,Bechtel...very efficient.
Not.

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01-09.-2006, 04:20 AM

#225

davidmc

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Re: What happens when you oppose Bu$hCo too vigorously

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wurm

Given that "your" tax money has been pissed away so blatantly and you claim to be so upset about it, why aren't you marching on Wash, D.C. leading a tax-payer's revolt, nns??

Good question. some of her tax money went to corporate privateer coffers in Iraq (KBR) which were subsequently found to have used a goodly amt. fraudulently

. I'd rather have my taxes reaping SOME benefit (domestic social assistance that she abhors) rather than having NO benefit (corporate giveaways to Bush's buisiness cohorts in Iraq).

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