Page 5 - Fidel Castro

21-08.-2006, 11:32 PM	#61
cheapie Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 847	Re: Fidel Castro i don't know. it was 8 years or so ago. i'm sure they did it because they were unavailable there at the time.

21-08.-2006, 11:37 PM	#62
stevebaby Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Craggy Island Posts: 2,449	Re: Fidel Castro I'm sure that bibles were available to anyone who wanted one in 1998. __________________ Cruel and vicious,but fair. Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls! Nechaevist

21-08.-2006, 11:46 PM	#63
cheapie Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 847	Re: Fidel Castro i'm sure you would know better than the two of them and the organization they worked with.

22-08.-2006, 12:44 AM

#64

stevebaby

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Location: Craggy Island

Posts: 2,449

Re: Fidel Castro

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheapie

i'm sure you would know better than the two of them and the organization they worked with.

It certainly looks that way.The bible was the best-selling book at the International Book Fair in 1992,1994,1996 and at the time the following link was posted,it was expected to be a best-seller in 1998...which was the time you say your sister had to "smuggle" bibles into Cuba.1998 was the year the Pope visited Cuba.

http://www.biblesociety.org/wr_328/328_17.htm
Cuban People Hoping for Bibles

"Smuggling" bibles? Nah.

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Last edited by stevebaby : 22-08.-2006 at 12:54 AM.

22-08.-2006, 01:05 AM

#65

cheapie

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Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 847

Re: Fidel Castro

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebaby

http://www.biblesociety.org/wr_328/328_17.htm
Cuban People Hoping for Bibles

"Smuggling" bibles? Nah.

nah? so you're saying that either all of the organizations that smuggle bibles into cuba didn't know they didn't have to or....what? i'm not exactly sure either but i'm certainly not going to dismiss the entire effort after a 30 second google search.

22-08.-2006, 01:15 AM	#66
stevebaby Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Craggy Island Posts: 2,449	Re: Fidel Castro Exactly.What percentage of americans... a)Believe in the Rapture? b)Were disappointed when the Rapture didn't occur in 2000? I was chatting to a couple of american mormons once.They had been in australia 2 weeks.They were quite confused...I got the definite impression that they thought they were in England... PS...0.1 of a second...161 000 hits... __________________ Cruel and vicious,but fair. Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls! Nechaevist

22-08.-2006, 01:19 AM

#67

cheapie

Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 847

Re: Fidel Castro

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebaby

Exactly.What percentage of americans...
a)Believe in the Rapture?
b)Were disappointed when the Rapture didn't occur in 2000?

I was chatting to a couple of american mormons once.They had been in australia 2 weeks.They were quite confused...I got the definite impression that they thought they were in England...

PS...0.1 of a second...

ooookkkayyy then. now that any hope of a reasonable dialog has been erased, i will take my leave of this discussion.

22-08.-2006, 01:25 AM	#68
stevebaby Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Craggy Island Posts: 2,449	Re: Fidel Castro ...american sailors who thought australia was a coral atoll and sydney(pop 4.5 million) was a collection of grass huts...marines who thought I was from new york...where none of them had ever been (to the great amusement of the us navy guys). I'm not making any of this up. __________________ Cruel and vicious,but fair. Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls! Nechaevist

22-08.-2006, 05:12 AM

#69

Wurm

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Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 2,148

Re: Fidel Castro

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillM

Lighten up Wurm....you take yourself waaaay too seriously.

As for critical thinking......good advice. Hate clouds most peoples thinking.....think about that Wurm.

Think about why you are such a stupid, gullible person. While you're at it, try to think of a better thing to oppose than the current takeover of the US by the fascist Bush Admin. and their friends in Congress.

Yes, I do take that seriously.

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22-08.-2006, 06:41 AM

#70

limerickman

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Re: Fidel Castro

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheapie

you're right. you can't. because that would require a bit of objectivity.

I don't know if America has great medical schools.
Not really an issue either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheapie

are you serious? personal freedom? as in...they're free to do and say exactly what castro says or they can rot in jail? lol. tell that to my sister who has spent time smuggling bibles into the country.

I am serious.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

22-08.-2006, 06:45 AM

#71

limerickman

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Re: Fidel Castro

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebaby

I'm sure that bibles were available to anyone who wanted one in 1998.

Maybe the Cubans quarantined Pope John Paul II Bible - when he visited Cuba eight years ago.

www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/cuba.pope

22-08.-2006, 06:51 AM

#72

cheapie

Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 847

Re: Fidel Castro

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

I don't know if America has great medical schools.
Not really an issue either way.

right. you have no idea whether or not one of the biggest and most powerful nations in the world has any great medical schools. one might hazard a guess that we do.

22-08.-2006, 07:32 AM

#73

nns1400

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Re: Fidel Castro

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebaby

http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/usexecute.htm
U.S. Executions Since 1976

Were any of these people political prisoners executed for disagreeing with the government? Or for actual crimes like murder?

22-08.-2006, 08:47 AM

#74

nns1400

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Re: Fidel Castro

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebaby

"5 000-12 000" over 47 years is hardly a lot.
That's 106-255 deaths per year.Not a lot considering that for all of that time Cuba has been under covert attack by extreme right-wingers sponsored by the US. Take a look at Haiti where the notorious Papa "Doc" Duvalier is estimated to have killed 30 000 over a similar period.Take a look at Nicaragua,Guatemala,El Salvador,Dominican Republic,Panama,Chile,Brazil,Bolivia,Paraguay,Argentina,Colombia...all of which have murdered dissidents and all of whom have had right-wing governments whose Death Squads were armed,trained and financed by the US.And that's just Central and South America.
You conveniently chose to ignore all of that,and the reason is obvious...Cuba has a left-wing government,and that's your real bone of contention...isn't it?
Actually,I never mentioned Cuban dissidents.As for your statement that people are allowed to say or think what they want...what would be the likely result if I were to say any of the above in a state with the history of violence that Florida has?
Stating that the US has no dissidents is nonsense.Kent State,Waco,The Black Panthers,the Civil Rights Movement,the Anti Vietnam War Movement? The US has a long record when it comes to dissidents...what do you think the millions of people who died in US wars of aggression over the last 100 years were?
The US Coast Guard enforces US government policy and that policy is to return anyone captured on their way to America.Either the US government does not consider these economic refugees are at risk or they are complicit in the "brutal" repression that you claim.You can't have it both ways.
I stand by my original statement.On balance,Castro has been a good president for Cuba based on his record of improving child mortality and providind the best doctors and medical care possible,in spite of the US government sanctions which make it illegal for you to go and see for yourself...as Lim did.I also could visit Cuba if I so chose...in the Land of the Free...you get arrested.
Try reading another perspective about US policy in the region,written by a USMC General,twice decorated with the Congressional Medal of Honour and the most popular soldier in the Usa at the time writing.It was written in 1933,but it remains true today.Nothing's changed.
http://www.fas.org/man/smedley.htm
Smedley Butler on Interventionism

"5 000-12 000" over 47 years is hardly a lot.

This statement proves what an unbelievably intellectually dishonest hypocrite you are. What is your personal threshold of "a lot" of executions by a communist country. Or any dictatorship? I mean, how many political executions would be considered immoral by you? More than 30,000? Less?
Take a look at Haiti where the notorious Papa "Doc" Duvalier is estimated to have killed 30 000 over a similar period.Take a look at Nicaragua,Guatemala,El Salvador,Dominican Republic,Panama,Chile,Brazil,Bolivia,Paraguay,Argentina,Colombia...all of which have murdered dissidents and all of whom have had right-wing governments whose Death Squads were armed,trained and financed by the US.And that's just Central and South America.
You conveniently chose to ignore all of that,and the reason is obvious...Cuba has a left-wing government,and that's your real bone of contention...isn't it?

What did I ignore? We are talking about Cuba. The title of the thread is "Fidel Castro." You and Lim admire him. I challenged that. You told me I had no facts to present an argument that Fidel is an evil pig. I presented some facts.

I don't really grade on a curve as regards dictatorships. I have not said other types of dictatorships are acceptable; nor do I rate them in order of number of executions. You are the one who can't cope with the truth about Cuba because it has a left-wing "government." You are the one who goes on moral diatribes about right-wing governments, yet refuses to condemn the same behavior in a communist one. I would call that morally bankrupt.
Actually,I never mentioned Cuban dissidents:

Yes, you did. I asked you about Cuban dissidents, and you said "As for dissidents --stop parroting nonsense." I presented you with facts about current Cuban dissidents from Human Rights Watch, which you refuse to acknowledge.

As for your statement that people are allowed to say or think what they want...what would be the likely result if I were to say any of the above in a state with the history of violence that Florida has?

There is a difference between the State arresting you and putting you in prison for those comments, and a private citizen beating the crap out of you because you're an a**hole. The good news is, in Florida, if he killed you, at least we would execute him for murder. Does that make you feel better?

Stating that the US has no dissidents is nonsense.Kent State,Waco,The Black Panthers,the Civil Rights Movement,the Anti Vietnam War Movement? The US has a long record when it comes to dissidents...what do you think the millions of people who died in US wars of aggression over the last 100 years were?

The people who were involved in the Civil Rights Movement and the Anti Vietnam War Movement 30 to 40 years ago are not languishing in prison. They are in the United States Congress, Senate, and Supreme Court, and of course Hollywood. They have been elected President. Have you ever heard of Bill Clinton? Many of them have become rich and famous by exploiting their "dissident" persona. Have you ever heard of Jesse Jackson?

The US Coast Guard enforces US government policy and that policy is to return anyone captured on their way to America.

That is not the policy. They are interviewed and a determination is made on whether they are expressly political refugees, or economic refugees. And yes, economic refugees are turned back, because they have to apply for a visa like everyone else on the long list of countries that oppress people, many of whom we accept through legal immigration. We don't have anything handy like the Pacific Solution, where we could just detain them on some other island indefinitely like Australia does.

Either the US government does not consider these economic refugees are at risk or they are complicit in the "brutal" repression that you claim.You can't have it both ways.

I am not trying to have it both ways. I am not the US government. I am a person challenging the validity of your claims that Cuba is a good place to live with a good leader.

You seem to be making some kind of case that the "brutal" repression that I "claim" cannot be true if we don't take in every person off the seas. I am not "claiming" anything. I have presented concrete evidence that Fidel Castro is a brutal, repressive dictator irregardless of immigration policy.

Your analysis of the evidence seems to be that it's not enough to convince you. 5,000 - 12,000 political executions doesn't rise to the level of repression in your book. The dissidents that you keep ignoring don't really seem to matter much to you either. The Black Panthers are far more relevant to current events in your mind.
I stand by my original statement.On balance,Castro has been a good president for Cuba based on his record of improving child mortality and providind the best doctors and medical care possible.

On balance? Improving child mortality (while simultaneously having one of the highest abortion rates in the world) and providing medical care (though not to people in prison, especially political prisoners) cannot be achieved without a brutal repressive regime? Why can't Castro do all his good deeds without brutality? I think your sense of "balance" needs an adjustment.

Obviously, to argue facts with someone who does not care about facts is a waste of time.

22-08.-2006, 09:09 AM

#75

BillM

Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2006

Posts: 331

Re: Fidel Castro

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebaby

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ions_since_1945
List of United States military history events - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ahh so any event that the US is involved in is a US war of aggression?

Arguing with you is pointless as you have your mind made up. Hate away hater....it apparently is what you live for.

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