Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea

Carrera

Militarily Europe is quite weak. Somewhere back home I have a book I bought lst time I was in Russia that breaks down all the weapons and missiles collectively owned by the U.S., Russia and Europe.
Russia and the U.S. are, more or less, even with regard to intercontinental balistic missiles. After reductions, Russia was left with about 2,500 nuclear warheads and the U.S. has roughly the same. The U.S. has a slight edge over Russia although lately I heard Russia has come out with a new missile that could top anything China or America has at this point in time.
Back to Europe. This same book I refer to points out that the numero uno military power in Europe (including the U.K.) is France, yet France is so far behind the U.S. and Russia, they are hardly significant.
Most people understand Europe sat still for decades and allowed the two superpowers to build up a vast amount of arms.
I agree many European countries have a better record on human rights than the U.S. and that Europeans are more tolerant and liberal. Still, my point is America still shares the same basic values as Europeans. Most Americans believe in equality, personal freedoms, a free press and due process of law. Even in cases where the Government screws up, it can be held to account by Congress or by democracy.
Your idea that the U.S. is in the same kind of class as Iran strikes me as pretty extreme and ridiculous. Iran is one of the most repressive, backward-looking regimes in the Middle East.

limerickman

That's rich coming from you.



The USA did not confront Adolf Hitler until 1941.
Until 1941, America was happy to sit on the side lines and to profit from sales and commerce with both sides in the ongoing conflict.

In relation to trying to draw an analogy between WWII and Iran - this is wholly inappropriate/inaccurate/vacuous stuff.
There is no parallel between WWII and Iran.


I thought that you had rectified your behaviour here, Carerra but you seem to slipping back in to the same old routine of posting, what is at best, conjecture just to get a reaction from people here.

I told you then and I am telling you now again - that this sort of stuff won't be tolerated.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

limerickman

Is it? You claim to know the reasons why the Iranians elected who they elected?

You don't know why the Iranians elected their leader. You're speculating at best.

Do you know anything about the current President and the policies that got him elected? You don't.

If you did, you'd know that he advocates a plan of social reform concentrated upon greater distribution of wealth in Iran. You would also know that his constituency represents the lower income classes in Iran.
Those domestic policies made him popular with the Iranian electorate.
Throw in the fact that his opponent Rafsanjanhi was viewed as being more in favour of the wealthier sections of Iranian society - the current President's win came about.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

darkboong

I call you on that, it is no way self-evident that Iran is
unstable or dangerous, you must provide evidence.

__________________
Free Beer !

darkboong

Your figure is out by a factor of two. On April 15th 2006 Walter Pincus wrote in the Washington Post :


Washington Post

Note: I provided my source, you should learn from that.

__________________
Free Beer !

ptlwp

The hell with parallels or whatever. Iran is acting as uncouth as it claims the rest of the world behaves. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. They all (gov'ts who want nukes) are out of their screwball minds and should be dealt with like kids on the block who are jealous of someone elses' bigger toys!!!!!

Like the gang of bullies (rest of the world) beat him the hell up.

__________________
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Sir Edmund Burke

Carrera

Put it this way. The British Embassy was only recently sacked in Iran and staff fled for their lives. You must have seen the news - it was on the BBC.
If you're so sure Iran is so stable, why don't you offer your services as replacement staff?
Or could it be you're a secret visitor to Disneyland in Florida and wouldn't dare set foot in any of these countries you hail as paragons of virtue?

Carrera

True, it's a real shame we couldn't settle our differences in the old way - with shields and swords and brute force as opposed to nukes and chemicals. Added to that, the former way kept a person fit. There were no fatties in Sparta and no environmental problems or global warming either.

Carrera

I was gonna ask how come you're up so late but, I forget, the U.S. has different time zones. Here it must be turned 1.00 a.m. so hopefully Limerickman is snoozing prior to banning me.
Having said that I cycled many many miles and ought to feel tired.

ptlwp

It's about 9:18 pm here.....but actually I am usually up at 1:00 am also; a bit of a night owl.

I worked at night time shift job, years ago, and liked working nights much better.

__________________
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Sir Edmund Burke

limerickman

Which news service told you this?
I can recall protests outside the British Embassy recently - but I didn't see any attack on the British Embassy in 2006 or 2005.

I recall the British Embassy being attacked in Tehran in 2004 which kinda makes your points even more irrelevant.

Now that you're intent on making totally ludicrous statements the British Embassy was burnt to the ground here in Ireland in 1974 too.




.........??

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

darkboong

Big whup. British Embassies have been knocked over in practically every country on the planet. We even knocked theirs over here in London a few years back. It is practically a sport.



Because I would then be bombed by the US. Besides my opinions are very different from the Governments, I could not in all honesty represent HMG.



I don't hail them as paragons of virtue. Quote me if you can. The closest I've come to that is saying that they are not so different from us.

__________________
Free Beer !

Carrera

Let's take this step at a time. First the Embassy:
"The cartoon wars continued undeterred on Tuesday in Tehran, where "scores of Iranian demonstrators" broke windows with stones and hurled Molotov cocktails at the British embassy between chants of "Death to Tony Blair", "Death to Britain" and Death to America'."
http://vitalperspective.typepad.com...ans_attack.html
So, supposing you were an Embassy worker and stones and fire bombs were being hurled at you from outside. That doesn't constitute an attack of an Embassy? Or could it be the case I might possibly be right to point out assaulting an Embassy is justified on the basis of what took place in a newspaper in a totally different country, i.e. Denmark?
Second point, censorship: It seems to me that when push comes to shove and your views (or Darkboongs views) are seriously challenged, we get this customary lecture on banning folk (i.e. me!) who don't view the political world in the same way. Rather than defend your views or prove me wrong, you choose threats of censorship. Or, as in the past, you delete the entire post.
So, what mortal sin have I commiteed this time to be banned? Apparently I stated the view the British Embassy had been attacked in Iran and that, in my view, this was another example of the fact Iran was not rational.
I stated the view Iran should not be allowed to obtain nuclear weapons - my suspicions being shared by many Europeans.
This is the first time I've encountered a soap box that bans folk for having a different view. Had I insulted someone, threatened someone, or incited people to attack others, sure, I would understand the notion of being banned.

limerickman

The only report that I saw concerning the British Embassy being attacked in Tehran was in 2004.

yes, there were demonstrations outside of the emabassy recently - but I saw no record of it being attacked, as you put it.






Your views have been consistently challenged in a polite and factual manner.
The views that you expressed have been challenged by me and others.

You choose to either ignore replies made to you or you repeat the same line without any reference to the rebuttal argument made.
That's your choice.

I requested you to modify this some weeks ago and you seemed to do so.

But recently, you slid back in to the old routine.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.