Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea

Originally Posted by Carrera

My position is the further Iran is kept away from acquiring nuclear weapons, the better. It may be true I agree with Wurm, Limerickman and Darkboong over Iraq and the stupidity of the Iraq war but my stance over Iran is very different. Not that I advocate military intervention as such. I do concede Iran should be offered immunity from any kind of regime change if it co-operates with Russia and Europe. This, to my mind, seems reasonable.
Let me point out again that it may well be true the Bush regime has ignored fundamental human rights norms and exploited the 9/11 tragedy. However, that doesn't mean Iran automatically becomes an innocent victim of an aggressive imperialism.
I keep trying to reiterate the point Iran is not a country where appeasement will somehow win you respect or co-operation and, therefore, the E.U. should take a very strong position over the nuclear issue.
One point is it seems to me that the U.K. bent over backwards to apologise to Iran and the Islamic World over those cartoons published in Denmark (not even published in a U.K. newspaper, for that matter). Yet, the British Embassy was attacked and Embassy staff threatened which entitles me to pose the question, where did all the posturing and compromise get the Brits after Ken Livingstone publically condemned the Danes over that issue?
Let me quote the following:
"Tehran, Iran, Aug. 14 – Hundreds of hard-line members of the paramilitary Bassij in Iran rallied outside the British embassy in Tehran on Sunday afternoon, chanting “death to England” (sic.) and demanding that British “spies” leave the country.
The Islamist protesters pelted the compound with stones and tomatoes, trampled on American and Israeli flags and set them on fire.
Several embassy windows were shattered, but there was no report of embassy staff sustaining injuries. It is not known whether Sir Richard Dalton, the British ambassador to Iran, was in the embassy at the time of the unruly protest."

Originally Posted by Carrera

One thing that irritates me on a personal basis over Iran also has to do with the attempt to impose censorship on Europe as I mentioned before. This is the demand Iran, the Palestinians, Pakistan and other countries have been pressing on the E.U. after a free newspaper in Denmark printed some cartoons that Arabs found insulting.
The last time I kept up with the news, I heard Blair may be the first to buckle to the pressure and impose some kind of blasphemy law so religion then remains out of bounds to be criticized or insulted by journalists.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's polite or even fair to mock peoples' religious beliefs but the idea of prosecuting journalists who poke fun at religion strikes me as theocracy on the rise. As a liberal I believe in free speech and that includes the right to insult or be insulted back and to simply say what you believe.
I would also defend the right of the recent British historian to publish his views on the hollocaust without being imprisoned in Austria for his views. People have a right to question established facts and they have the same right to question religion too.
Many people concluded this cartoon affair was the first attempt to alter democratic rights within Europe to suit an Islamic agenda, via protests and demonstrations and Iran knew exactly what it was doing by fanning the flames.

Originally Posted by ptlwp

Only the Mossad knows for sure what the hell is going on; and they are not saying one word.

Originally Posted by 11ring

Interesting backround facts about the cartoon case.

The newpaper in question used the defence of free speech only after a stink was kicked up. Jyllands Posten has a history of opposing free speech- on three occasions it has either censored, called for censorship or done beat ups about groups or artists critical of Christianity. It is an ultra conservative paper.

Denmark's government is the most conservative in Iran. and is only in power with the support of neo-fascists

Denmark has troops in Iraq.

The collection of muslim states that demanded meetings with the danish ambassador never called for censorship, simply condemnation of the content and intent of the cartoons. The issue of censorship was falsely raised by the governemnt to win support.

So, even though many Danes are not racist, when the government, which has a history of using racism to cover the fact that it is kiling social democracy, failed to condemn the cartoons it was reasonable for muslims to think that here was just another act of Muslim bashing.

It is not like muslims are being paranoid- many of them have been labeled as part of the Axis of evil and face constant military threats.

Originally Posted by EoinC

...And somehow that answers my question of whether your "nuclear program" terminology refers only to nuclear weaponry, or is inclusive of nuclear power? A simple - "Yes, I am including nuclear power generation" or "No, I am not including nuclear power generation" would suffice. I still don't know your position from the verbage you responded with. Please clarify by responding with a statement, bound in a single sentence, Carrera.

Originally Posted by Carrera

That's simple to answer. I would draw the line at any nuclear technology in Iran that would give rise to a serious risk of Iran obtaining nuclear weapons. The prospect of an extremist theocratic government obtaining any such weapons is, in my view, totally out of the question.

Originally Posted by Carrera

I guess Europe has to decide and learn from WW2 (when Europe adopted a pacifist approach to their great cost).

Originally Posted by darkboong

Indeed. The US should immediately cease production, stockpiling and deployment of all nuclear facilities and weapons. Same goes for Israel.



"I guess" you should learn some history. You would have flunked any history exam that I am aware of if you told that story.

As far as I am concecrned you could be an idiot, a liar or perhaps both.

Originally Posted by darkboong

Indeed. The US should immediately cease production, stockpiling and deployment of all nuclear facilities and weapons. Same goes for Israel.



"I guess" you should learn some history. You would have flunked any history exam that I am aware of if you told that story.

As far as I am concecrned you could be an idiot, a liar or perhaps both.

Originally Posted by ptlwp

I have more faith in the Mossad than any other government agency in any country regarding safety, information, etc. etc....

Originally Posted by Carrera

"I guess" you should learn some history. You would have flunked any history exam that I am aware of if you told that story."

As I say, the U.S. isn't perfect as a democracy. However, the U.S. did defend Europe from communism while, to be honest, Europe chose to sit back and let the U.S. pay for their defence.

Originally Posted by Carrera

This is why Europeans enjoy a higher living standard than Americans and Russians - they simply didn't invest billions of dollars on arms and missiles.

Originally Posted by Carrera

Put simply, without the U.S. occasionally confronting despotic regimes, Europe would probably have been taken over by hardline communism decades ago and this is something you should maybe consider.

Originally Posted by darkboong

Indeed. The US should immediately cease production, stockpiling and deployment of all nuclear facilities and weapons. Same goes for Israel...