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29-04.-2006, 01:20 PM
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#16 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 544
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Re: Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea
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Only the Mossad knows for sure what the hell is going on; and they are not saying one word.
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"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Sir Edmund Burke |
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29-04.-2006, 04:53 PM
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#17 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: "Still in 1975"
Posts: 2,722
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Re: Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea
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They do not wish to negotiate with the IAEA.... Quote...... "After more than three years of agency efforts to seek clarity about all aspects of Iran's nuclear program, the existing gaps in knowledge continue to be a matter of concern," said the report. "Any progress in that regard requires full transparency and active cooperation by Iran." This was reported by the IAEA.... " Iran continued to rebuff agency efforts to get answers in regard to suspicions Iran was attempting to make nuclear arms, the report said." ====================================== This is a country that has stated that it wants to "wipe Israel off the map."
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"I rule my world with a cellphone." |
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30-04.-2006, 04:45 AM
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#18 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 4,816
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Re: Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea
Sure, I agree totally. Iran has genuine cause to feel threatened which is why I've buffered some of my anti-Iranian posts with the view the U.S. should offer Iran a deal for peace. That is a guarantee there will be no U.S. intervention in Iran or regime changes, if Iran co-operates with the U.N.
As for Israel, I'm sure most surrounding Arab countries must know by now Israel isn't the type of country to simply drop atom bombs on other countries. There is no threat to Iran from Israel but, yes, I can understand it feels threatened by those troops in Iraq. However, let's also be aware Iran hasn't exactly done itself any favours lately by picking a fight with Denmark, urging Europe to prohibit the press from making jokes about religion and then calling for Israel to be wiped off the map. Iran seems to have antagonised Europe, worried Russia and played into the hands of the neo-cons. Quote:
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30-04.-2006, 08:03 AM
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#19 | |
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Community Team
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: at the bar
Posts: 12,649
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Re: Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea
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Iran and Europe are far closer in relations that Iraq and Europe for example. Europe doesn't feel threatened by Iran - Europe has commerical ties that bind Iran close to us. The Russians and Chinese are trying to build commerical ties with Iran. Therefore it is unlikely that Europe/China/Russia will support either economic or military sanctions against Iran. Tonight Irans Minister for Energy said that he wanted to have a dialogue with the IAEA,
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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF morelike hypocrisy. |
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30-04.-2006, 09:47 AM
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#20 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 4,816
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Re: Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea
There is a problem though. After 9/11, the U.S. is very wary of Iran, suspecting that next time a whole city could be decimated. Also the fact Iranians have these placards and slogans not with "Death to Russia!" or "Death to China" but "Death to America!" So, naturally Russia and China aren't as worried as the U.S. or Israel.
Of course, things are less tense with Europe but let's not forget Iran is pressing for censorship of the free press in Europe. I hear Blair is now toying with a blasphemy law that will seek to make it a criminal offence to criticize Islam e.t.c. e.t.c. Then you have Iran's tirades against Denmark and demands over censorship. My own view is the U.S. should first give peace a chance and offer Iran a guarantee of security if it abandons the nuclear program. However, if Iran refuses then my own view is Europe must choose. Either it appeases Iran or it takes a stand and considers the implications a nuclear Iran could have for global stability. I really don't think the U.S. or Israel will allow Iran to go nuclear, though. Quote:
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30-04.-2006, 01:54 PM
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#21 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,148
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Re: Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea
All you have to understand is this:
9/11 = permanent U.S. military bases in Iraq. Without 9/11 they never could have accomplished this, and also realize that the entire U.S. ecomomy was at stake here as Saddam had converted to euros. There are those in the C.I.A. who are of the opinion that sometimes "evil" things have to be done - this is one such case. Bush was quoted early in his first year as saying, "Find me a way to do Iraq, I dont care what it takes." Well they found a way. I'm sure he was not even privy to the details. He was told to go to Florida to this school, for today is the day - he knew something was up. Now Cheney on the other hand was deeply involved. Iran is supposed to start selling oil in euros this year. They will be next. The entire wealth of the richest country in the world is based on controlling the currency of oil. They will wait until after the mid-term election cycle and try to Diebold their way into retaining control of Congress. After that the cruise missiles will be flying, and now that we have those handy forward operating bases in Iraq.......
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"Bush is the first President to admit to an impeachable offense." - John Dean, former Counsel to the President (Nixon) The aim of big corporations is to separate fools from their money all of the time and ordinary folks from their money most of the time. The rest of us must fend for ourselves. Last edited by Wurm : 30-04.-2006 at 01:59 PM. |
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30-04.-2006, 05:08 PM
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#22 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: ex of santa cruz, california, usa
Posts: 798
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when it comes to nukes, cheney 'n rummy set 'em up...
seems the current players done set up the deal, and were all for it when it was profitable. so predictably commonplace among the usual suspects.
www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran's_nuclear_program#U.S.-Iran_nuclear_cooperation_in_the_1970s Quote:
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"The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so must we think anew and act anew" Abraham Lincoln, in his address to congress dec. 1st, 1861 |
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30-04.-2006, 05:19 PM
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#23 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: ex of santa cruz, california, usa
Posts: 798
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who is tops in arms sales again?
the israelis seem to long have a corner on the market, and thus do not appreciate the competition.
for flooding the market with small arms: www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Military_Industries then there are the missles as well: www.israelinsider.com/channels/diplomacy/articles/dip_0148.htm what measures, indeed... . What measures are to be taken ??? What is to be done.....?????[/QUOTE]
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"The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so must we think anew and act anew" Abraham Lincoln, in his address to congress dec. 1st, 1861 Last edited by Hypnospin : 30-04.-2006 at 05:32 PM. |
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30-04.-2006, 08:16 PM
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#24 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 4,816
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Re: Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea
You could possibly profit from reading some books on the Waco crisis and David Koresh, Wurm. That was a classic case that revealed the U.S. isn't half as organised or prepared as people imagine.
They totally bungled Waco and, as a result, old people, women and children died in the blaze of the ranch. Really, it should have been a quick in and out operation by the firearms and tobacco dep but David Koresh found out they were coming through word of mouth and the radio. That was many years ago. As for FBI intelligence gathering, they apparently missed basic information available on the internet with regard to Koresh. This convinces me that when 9/11 took place, Bush was genuinely caught out. The truth is he had no idea it would happen and the planes weren't shot down because the U.S. simply wasn't prepared for the attack. Same thing with Katrina - the whole defence against natural disaster was bungled and again Bush got caught hopping. I do accept Bush later exploited the 9/11 attacks and that is a dangerous thing to do - a case of crying wolf in the wrong direction (i.e. Iraq). Now we have a real threat on our hands yet Europe and the U.S.A. have been divided because, as John Kerry pointed out before, Bush weakened the credibility of his country. Quote:
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30-04.-2006, 08:45 PM
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#25 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 4,816
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Re: Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea
One thing that irritates me on a personal basis over Iran also has to do with the attempt to impose censorship on Europe as I mentioned before. This is the demand Iran, the Palestinians, Pakistan and other countries have been pressing on the E.U. after a free newspaper in Denmark printed some cartoons that Arabs found insulting.
The last time I kept up with the news, I heard Blair may be the first to buckle to the pressure and impose some kind of blasphemy law so religion then remains out of bounds to be criticized or insulted by journalists. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's polite or even fair to mock peoples' religious beliefs but the idea of prosecuting journalists who poke fun at religion strikes me as theocracy on the rise. As a liberal I believe in free speech and that includes the right to insult or be insulted back and to simply say what you believe. I would also defend the right of the recent British historian to publish his views on the hollocaust without being imprisoned in Austria for his views. People have a right to question established facts and they have the same right to question religion too. Many people concluded this cartoon affair was the first attempt to alter democratic rights within Europe to suit an Islamic agenda, via protests and demonstrations and Iran knew exactly what it was doing by fanning the flames. |
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01-05.-2006, 12:52 AM
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#26 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,148
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Re: Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea
Quote:
There is a gigantic difference between routing out a lone religious madcap, and all of the potential gains and consequences of pulling off an event like 9/11. There is no relevant comparison between the two events. I have in the past listed on this forum the MANY unanswered or "unexplainable coincidences" surrounding 9/11; in not ONE single case has anyone of those here who don't believe BushCo had a major hand in it accurately and honestly explained those issues.
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"Bush is the first President to admit to an impeachable offense." - John Dean, former Counsel to the President (Nixon) The aim of big corporations is to separate fools from their money all of the time and ordinary folks from their money most of the time. The rest of us must fend for ourselves. |
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01-05.-2006, 08:12 PM
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#27 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Deepest, Darkest West Central Africa
Posts: 1,464
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Re: Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea
Quote:
If you have no concerns over Iran "going nuclear" on the electrickery front, please state it, as it is not the same thing as going nuclear on a weaponry front, the way the UK, USA, France, Pakistan, USSR, India.... have. If your concerns are solely based on Iran developing nuclear armaments, you may need a little more eveidence than is currently being proferred before you have a valid basis for calling for any form of dissuasive action. I hope that you apply the same rules as you would to Israel / UK / France... in deciding what is acceptable and what is not. |
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01-05.-2006, 08:48 PM
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#28 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 340
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Re: Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea
On women in Iran, 65% of uni students are women. Sure repression exists, but it is not so bad that the only option is "regime change". Actauly there is a strong democracy movement in Iran, but the problem for the US is that democracy in the middle east would be a disaster for the US as any democratic government would be opposed to US imperialism. In fact, the "democracy movment" in Iran is incredibly hostile to US agression.
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01-05.-2006, 08:57 PM
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#29 |
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Community Team
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: at the bar
Posts: 12,649
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Re: Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea
11ring - agreed.
The fundamental miscalculation is that the Bush admin has managed to convice itself that it's brand of "democracy" has some sort of legitimacy. Iran is a pretty progressive country in that women are allowed attend university. Contrast Iran with Saudi Arabia - where women are not allowed the same freedoms as in Iran.
__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF morelike hypocrisy. |
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01-05.-2006, 11:14 PM
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#30 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 4,816
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Re: Israeli: Iran bought missiles from N.Korea
My position is the further Iran is kept away from acquiring nuclear weapons, the better. It may be true I agree with Wurm, Limerickman and Darkboong over Iraq and the stupidity of the Iraq war but my stance over Iran is very different. Not that I advocate military intervention as such. I do concede Iran should be offered immunity from any kind of regime change if it co-operates with Russia and Europe. This, to my mind, seems reasonable.
Let me point out again that it may well be true the Bush regime has ignored fundamental human rights norms and exploited the 9/11 tragedy. However, that doesn't mean Iran automatically becomes an innocent victim of an aggressive imperialism. I keep trying to reiterate the point Iran is not a country where appeasement will somehow win you respect or co-operation and, therefore, the E.U. should take a very strong position over the nuclear issue. One point is it seems to me that the U.K. bent over backwards to apologise to Iran and the Islamic World over those cartoons published in Denmark (not even published in a U.K. newspaper, for that matter). Yet, the British Embassy was attacked and Embassy staff threatened which entitles me to pose the question, where did all the posturing and compromise get the Brits after Ken Livingstone publically condemned the Danes over that issue? Let me quote the following: "Tehran, Iran, Aug. 14 – Hundreds of hard-line members of the paramilitary Bassij in Iran rallied outside the British embassy in Tehran on Sunday afternoon, chanting “death to England” (sic.) and demanding that British “spies” leave the country. The Islamist protesters pelted the compound with stones and tomatoes, trampled on American and Israeli flags and set them on fire. Several embassy windows were shattered, but there was no report of embassy staff sustaining injuries. It is not known whether Sir Richard Dalton, the British ambassador to Iran, was in the embassy at the time of the unruly protest." Quote:
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