Anzac Day 2006

stevebaby

"You,the mothers,who sent their sons from far away countries,wipe away your tears;your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace.After having lost their lives on our land they have become our sons as well."

- Kemal Ataturk's letter to Australian
mothers,after Gallipoli.

__________________
I'm Rooting for Chiara!
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bastard

Fixey

Least we forget

stevebaby

Kiwi mums too...and British,French,Indian...and Turkish.
The day gets a bit sadder each year as the number of old soldiers decreases.

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I'm Rooting for Chiara!
Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls!
bastard

bikelet

In Flanders fields the poppies blow Between the crosses, row on row, That mark our place; and in the sky The larks, still bravely singing, fly, Scarce heard amid the guns below. We are the Dead. Short days ago We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow, Loved, and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields. Take up our quarrel with the foe: To you from failing hands we throw The torch; be yours to hold it high. If ye break faith with us who die We shall not sleep, though poppies grow In Flanders fields. -John McCrae on May 3, 1915

limerickman

A very honourable sacrifice in what was a very dishonourable war (WWI).

Gallipoli still resonates over 90 years later.

Not forgetting those who also fought and died in WWII.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

davidmc

Very good insight/realization by Ataturk. Sadly, more recent leaders do not express thier thoughts as elegantly/concisely & compassionately as was done in days gone by. E.g.-Washington (Gen.), Lincoln, Churchill, ect...

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I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

stevebaby

It was a pretty generous sentiment in the circumstances.Ataturk was an officer at Gallipoli,his country had been invaded and the Turks paid a much higher price in terms of lives lost than the Allies did.His letter did much to heal the wounds and provided some consolation for the bereaved.
I can't imagine any of the current crop of world leaders repeating the sentiment.

__________________
I'm Rooting for Chiara!
Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls!
bastard

limerickman

Ataturk was a far-sighted Statesman (as opposed to politician).
He did much to modernise Turkey and to create a secular based goverment.

Gallipoli was a terrible campaign : indeed the entire Dardenelles threatre was terrible.
Massive loss of life on both sides for what was a dishonourable war.

I remember watching the Aussie cricket team coming to England a few years back.
Steve Waugh and the team stopped off in Turkey to visit Gallipoli and the Dardenelles : to help invoke the ANZAC spirit.
Even a guy like Waugh, who's ultra competitive, said that he and his squad were very very moved by that visit.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

davidmc

http://www.ataturk.com/index.php?op...id=12&Itemid=26

Thanks for getting me interested in this part of history. I usually tend to gravitate towards reading "ancient" (Greek, Egyptian, Roman, ect...) or my own country's "domestic" history. You could say I am "descriminatory" when it comes to modern history. For what its worth, I don't read non-fiction either.

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

limerickman

I only read non-fiction.

David - WWI is well worth reading up on.
The entire 20th century was configured upon what happened between 1914-1918.
What happened in those years resonates through the 1920's/30's and created WWII, the 1929 crash etc.

The BBC have produced fascinating documentaries about the period 1900-1914.
Often referred to as the Golden Era, this time saw relative worldwide peace and prosperity.
It was known as the Edwardian Era.

That Golden Generation as they were called - were brutally wiped away in the killing fields of Europe and most of the consensus and hope that filled the period 1900-1914 vanished for ever.
A very interesting time period.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

stevebaby

The creation of a secular state in Turkey was a pretty radical notion for the time and place and it must have taken a great deal of courage.
Ataturk's experience as a front-line officer at Gallipoli (where he told the troops under his command "I am not ordering you to fight..I am ordering you to die!",obviously had a very profound effect on him,as it did on John Kerrey and many other veterans of war.What a pity hitler wasn't affected the same way.
Or dubya,cheney and the rest who were able to avoid vietnam,not through personal conviction but through the privileged circumstances of their birth.

__________________
I'm Rooting for Chiara!
Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls!
bastard

stevebaby

We're still feeling the effects of WWl...Iraq and bosnia for example.
As you say,a very interesting period in modern history which is often passed over.
It's worth noting that the catalyst for WWl was ..."The war on terror" in the balkans.

__________________
I'm Rooting for Chiara!
Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls!
bastard

limerickman

It was a very radical notion for the time as you say - especially as Turkey was (and is) a deeply conservative Islamic nation.

And the other point that you hit upon is correct.
Any politician who served in warfare - ia loathe to subject his fellow citizens
to the same trial.
Hitler did fight in 1914-1918 (and won the Iron Cross) - as you say that didn't prevent him launching an unprovoked attack.

It cannot be coincidence that Blair/Bush/Cheney/Dumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Perle
never fought in a warfare situation and their unprovoked attack in 2003.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

stevebaby

All of the original ANZACs are now gone but their last words were reported widely here.Not one of them was in favour of war as a solution for anything.They all felt an obligation to speak out against it on behalf of the friends who were unable to.

"War never solves anything.It just causes a lot of misery and death and a lot of anxiety."
Charlie Mance,WWl veteran aged 100,April 2000.

__________________
I'm Rooting for Chiara!
Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls!
bastard