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Upgrading an old steel bike...

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Old 09-03.-2008, 03:23 AM   #16
alfeng
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Arrow Re: Upgrading an old steel bike...

Quote:
Originally Posted by garage sale GT
I wholeheartedly concur that some people may like the old bikes' fit better, but it's an issue which bears exploration since some authorites like the late Mr. Brown seemed to think bikes back then had a one-size-fits-all approach to top tube length.
Brown had some (not many, but glaring if you noticed them) errors; but, I think you mis-read Sheldon Brown's comments regarding top tube length on lugged frames ... or, maybe he didn't state it clearly.

It wasn't that one-size-fits-all would do for all frames, but that was the consequence of mass production BECAUSE the various lugs are cast at certain angles.

So, while various angles were available -- e.g., 72º, 73º, 74º -- for the head & seat tubes + BB shells, they have fixed angles UNLESS the framebuilder forges/hammers them to a new angle. Consequently, for off-the-shelf bikes, standardizing the bazillion lugs & BB shells for 72º or 73º frames were most easily accommodated by simply providing a different stem length.

TIG welding changed frame design AND rider frame fit -- miter the tubes as needed (i.e., ANY angle), then weld.

A vintage 52cm (c-c) frame would probably come with a 7cm stem whereas a current 52cm (c-c) frame might have a 12cm stem ... almost a two inch difference because the top tube on the contemporary frame will undoubtedly have a shorter top tube & some notions on frame fit have changed over the years (i.e., touring vs. "racing").

So, the same top tube length on vintage steel frames really wasn't a one-size-fits-all will do situation but the necessary result of mass production.
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Old 09-03.-2008, 03:36 AM   #17
alfeng
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Default Re: Upgrading an old steel bike...

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Originally Posted by John M
No problem spreading that rear triangle the 4mm to accomodate the 130mm rear wheel. It will be a bit tight and will interfere with rapid wheel changes, but will work fine. You could get a shop to permanently spread the frame, but I wouldn't bother. I have a 1983 steel Trek with 126mm spacing and a 130mm rear wheel (Veloce/mirage 9s triple mix used for commuting/bad weather) and everything works perfectly.
FWIW. I think that INDEXED SHIFTING is improved if the rear derailleur hanger is re-aligned after the stays are spread ...

On SOME frames, the dropouts may actually be slightly boat-tailed (well that was the case with my FUJI S-12S LTD, for example) ... the dropouts & rear derailleur hanger on the particular frame became parallel to the center plane of the frame after I spread the stays from 126mm to 130mm!
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Old 09-03.-2008, 03:47 AM   #18
alfeng
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Default Re: Upgrading an old steel bike...

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Originally Posted by oldbobcat
Beg to differ on one-size-fits all. Maybe at the lower end of the price spectrum, but at the upper end top tubes were proportioned to seat tube length. Granted, the general trend was shorter than today's trend, but remember that with with flexy quill stems and shorter seat posts most people rode frames that were 1-3 cm larger than what they are currently riding.
FWIW. I think the "trend" in top tube length varies from decade-to-decade ...

Back in the 60s-to-early-70s, I think the common top tube length (when frame angles were 72º & fork rake was 50mm) was about 57cm regardless of frame size for most high production frame builders.
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