Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Carrera

It simply amazes me you and Fred apparently support Abu Hamza. Have you read the statements he made that were used in his court trial? This is a guy who gloated over the shuttle disaster, calling the astronauts a "Trinity Of Evil" and I even saw him directly tell Tim Sebastian on Hard Talk what his theories were on that disaster, amongst over rantings that left even TS speechless.

limerickman

You posted another series of lies and false allegations.

On a different topic, I'm not a supporter of Hamza.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Carrera

Sure, I posted an allegation. It's my personal allegation and you and others have the right to dismiss it, criticize it or even prove me wrong. It's no different than Wurm's allegation that Bush was involved in a conspiracy plot.
It's not as if I'm alone in my condemnation of Hamza. Tim Sebastion has give many Israeli or American general a tough going over on Hard Talk but he winded up raising his voice to Hamza and almost getting out of his chair to leave - it seemed to me.
Abu Hamza has been featured in several videos which I happen to have viewed myself - or parts of them. Let me say they're pretty strong (I daren't quote them here) and my gripe is nothing was done about him for years.
My theory and I repeat it's a theory and opinion (not something I'm reporting as proven) is that possibly Hamza's rantings over the shuttle may well have upset somebody in Washington which is why they kicked up a fuss, calling for extradition. Hamza was very vocal over that incident.
Here, bear in mind I'm not calling for Hamza to have been extradited to the U.S. and on from there to Cuba as I oppose that policy. What I do think is that Hamza should have been tackled along time ago and just stopped. All they had to do was to stop him from his incitements.

Carrera

On a different theme, Piers Morgan seems to be writing for The Mail and was featured last weekend.
Many may recall Piers was the Mirror Editor who was sacked for publishing true-to-life photos of what was actually taking place in Iraq. The man was hounded by the BBC, ranted at by the public and called a traitor.
Now who's been proven right? Piers Morgan that's who. Now we know the beatings handed out to Iraqis wasn't fiction but fact and a lot of people owe Piers an apology.
Despite their brief support for the war, it didn't last long in The Mail and most Mail journalists are against the war.
At least they're giving Piers a break too.

limerickman

Actually you posted more lies.

You stated that the British police didn't arrest Hamza.

They did arrest Hamza.

You also stated that Hamza was in receipt of benefits and attempted create a stereotype.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

wolfix

There are some very realistic problems with that. But the main one is that the 'foreign ambassadors" would be against it. If the UN was to intervene, the ambassadors would lose their "validation parking" and other benifits they have in New York. And do you really think they want to leave New York and go back to where they came from? I doubt it.
And back to reality. A few militant individuals in a jail does not concern the average American. The democracy that the average American faces is on the local level. And it seems to work.
And this UN intervention team would consist of exactly who? The French? The Iranians? Or a bunch of witch doctors from some tribal community?
The question I have is this....... If America is so bad, why do we have to guard our borders preventing other nationalities from entering???? And other then wanted criminals, I really do not see anyone trying to leave.
Several months ago a poster wrote that cuba was a great place to live. Interesting. The people are not allowed to leave freely. Mothers put their children to risk on rafts across dangerous shark infested waters to leave , and is the country really better off today then it was back pre-castro? What makes cuba a good place to live?

__________________
"I rule my world with a cellphone."

Carrera

I didn't say the police didn't arrest Hamza. We know he's been arrested since he's been in prison for some time already. Of course, I never thought it needed to go as far as arresting him. I think he should just have been told to stop his more radical sermons.
Yes, they arrested him in the end. But it took many months, even years to do so.

limerickman

I think that you may well be referring to me in relation to Cuba.

If I can recall the context, you alleged that Cuba was a terrible place.
Have you ever been to Cuba ?
I visited Cuba in the 1990's and I found the Cubans to be great people.

The way of life over there has a lot of positives going for it.
Cuba's medical system is superb : they have the highest number of graduate
medical doctors anywhere in the world.
healthcare is free for all citizens.
In addition, education is free - teenagers young people can attend third level education for free.

Movement to the USA for Cubans may well be restricted.
I would suggest that given the level of US interference in Cuba, it is probably wise that the Cubans have this policy.
However, movement for Cubans to other countries isn't restricted.

Our country enjoys a great affinity with the Cuban people and their revolution .
Ireland supports Cuba through trade and cultural links (you can get flights from Shannon to Havana).
In fact when President Clinton visited Limerick in 1998, our city's Lord Mayor
in his address asked the Clinton to remove the US embargo of Cuba.
It was obvious that Clinton and his entourage had never been confronted about their embargo in such a public way.
made me proud to be Irish when our Lord Mayor made this case on Cubas behalf.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Carrera

Seems to me that the U.S. Cuba rift goes back to Krushchev. If I recall correctly, Fidel and Raul Castro were furious at Mr K for withdrawing the ballistic missiles over a deal about Turky and the U.S. bases on Turkey.
Fidel called Krushchev and "hijo de P++a!", so angry was he!
Fidel, at the time, wanted a more aggressive stance from the USSR and I suppose the U.S. will never forget that sour point till Castro goes. They have to honour their deal about not invading Cuba and will possibly let bygones be bygones when Fidel dies.
But maybe Fidel could have triggered a thermonuclear war. Of course, now he's mellowed as we all do in our old ages.

limerickman

Message 8 on 11/2/06 : You wrote and I quote "The Brits didn't arrest Hamza anyway".

You lied then and you're lying again now.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Carrera

Hmmm, I lost my, er, innocence to a Cuban woman when I was somewhat younger. That was my first "proper girlfriend". Then others followed, many Russian and Hispanic ladies so I became quite a ladies man.

Carrera

It seems clear to me my meaning was the incentive to actually go out and arrest Hamza came after the U.S. extradition warrant. I didn't say he wasn't arrested by police in the U.K. when matters came to a head. If that's what you and others understood then I haven't made myself sufficienty clear somehow.
Of course he was arrested in the end.
The dispute with Fred was over the point that I believe the actual arrest had been forced by the bruhaha that Abu Hamza had made by many radical comments - especially over the shuttle disaster.
Fred disagrees, however, and his point was Hamza would have been arrested regardless of the extradition demand since Fred claims the U.K. Police would have acted.
I don't agree myself but that's just my angle. I think it's highly suspicious Hamza was only arrested just after that extradition order appeared and that years had passed without anyone taking any action over here - even when fellow worshippers at Finsbury Mosque complained.
That's what I was driving at.

limerickman

I'm not interested in your retrospective attempt to justify your racist views.

There's a pattern developing here - you post racist statements and carry on
your merry little way.

Then when it is pointed out to you that your posts contain racist content you attempt to backpedal without retracting the initial view that you expressed.

I am getting tired of having to edit or to challenge your racist views.

The easiest thing to do is for me is to close your account.
I don't want to have to do that but I believe that I have given you suffient width to try to rectify the content of your posts.
Despite this - you have continued to ignore my requests to clean up your act.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Colorado Ryder

Wow censorship is alive and well at the soapbox. Well done Limerickman! Way to destroy the integrity of the box.